Arkansas bans puberty blockers, hormone treatments and surgery for under 18s

[bluechameleon]

Report in the Grauniad obviously presents this as a Bad Thing, but seems very sensible.
www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/06/arkansas-transgender-youth-gender-affirming-treatment-ban?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
It is a bit uncomfortable though to be on the same side as the American Christian Right. I'm not sure that their motivations are necessarily the same as mine.

I've never really understood the "you think X so you must therefore be politically Y" At election time I did one of those policy survey things and it actually found that I agreed with a bit of them and a bit of those and a bit of the other. I prefer to not be part of a hive mind. It is quite a shallow way of thinking, I think A therefore I have to think B, but not C.

@yeahbutnaw

If you consistently find yourselves in agreement with the Far Right and Religious Evangelicals, it might be time to question your ideology.

Particularly since your ideology is consistently at odds with the Human Rights Campaign, ACLU and every international health organisation.

I imagine they all think water is wet. What to do, what to think...

Plus I would say that believing human beings cannot change sex, no matter what medication they take or surgery they undergo, is more about science than ideology.

I’m quite proud to be on the opposite side to the ACLU who happily throw women’s sport under the nearest bus to ensure men feel validated

I imagine sugar is involved.
Just no. Tastes like toffee (and not in a good way)
Probably boils water to do it though so we've that in common.

The way I view supporting the ACLU is similar to how I view supporting Stonewall. It really does depend on what they're promoting.

There's that pesky thinking again. A rod for my own back.

@yeahbutnaw

If you consistently find yourselves in agreement with the Far Right and Religious Evangelicals, it might be time to question your ideology.

Particularly since your ideology is consistently at odds with the Human Rights Campaign, ACLU and every international health organisation.

Oh bollocks to that, they've been captured. But you keep telling yourself that you're on the right side of history, if it makes you happy.

And it should be remembered there's as much overlap between "Far Right and Religious Evangelicals" and transactivism as there is with feminism. There's even, , overlap between feminism and transactivism.

If you consistently find yourselves in agreement with the Far Right and Religious Evangelicals, it might be time to question your ideology.

If they changed their minds and started agreeing with everything you think, would you therefore start to question it?

[quote IDontOnlyLikeJazzFunk]I thought I'd also read that another US State has ruled that boys who identify as girls cannot compete in athletics against girls

indeed. Four US states have already passed bills protecting women's sports and approx. 30 more have similar bills going through the process. This is good news!!

Arkansas is one of the states that has passed four bills protecting women's sports and obviously is leading the way with the medical protections for children so maybe more states will follow suit on that front as well.

www.womensliberationfront.org/womens-sports[/quote]
And I would bet that these states have not seen the uptick in suicide (thankfully) that CS of the ACLU likes to insist there will be.

Haha

I'm vegetarian like Hitler
I supported Jeremy Corbyn (at the beginning, but then he got a bit lame and now I can't decide about Kier Starmer but am still solidly left wing)
I found Red Dwarf great on TV
I know what a woman is
I agree with Arkansas on this issue

Hmm. This must all be very confusing for the OP!

You may know what a woman is, but Keir Starmer doesn't.
You may also know that the secret to perfect tofu is to fry it for 5 minutes, lightly spiced and floured then bake for 25.
That's knowledge you probably share with Corbyn.
Corbyn appears to get his glasses from the same place I do too.

ACLU, This ACLU? Chase Strangio's pet organisation. They are a joke

Great Venn diagram Whereyouleftit!

Can't take any credit for it AdHominemNonSequitur, just saw it used elsewhere and thought it was great myself.

I knew, just KNEW that when I clicked on this thread there would be at least one person chastising us for “aligning with far right evangelicals”. It’s such a childish reductive argument, it really is so silly 🤣🤣.

Of course none of these people can ever point to the evidence puberty blockers are effective.

The ACLU just seems to be Chase Strangio’s mouthpiece. Do we ever hear from anyone else at the ACLU?

ACLU, This ACLU?

The same ACLU that thinks writing FACT in capitals before an incorrect statement magically makes it the truth, and writing MYTH in capitals before a correct statement magically makes it a lie.

twitter.com/ACLU/status/1357062150322352131

We're supposed to take them seriously?!

Check the comments and ratios, they're an absolute laughing stock.

I'm guessing the ACLU is in the same position as Stonewall and many another organisation of any age. Once-progressive campaigners whose past achievements were considerable. But since then, rested on their laurels, lost their purpose, attracted entryists who manoeuvred themselves into leading roles and then hijacked the organisations and changed their direction. But, most people will think of such organisations as the organisation they were, not realising how different an organisation they are now.

To all worrying about agreeing with fundamentalist loonies: you can stop worrying. You're not.

Them: desperate to keep everyone in one of two gender boxes. (Case in point: Iran, as mentioned earlier. Trying to force biology to fit stereotypes? A-OK. Dropping the stereotypes? Run screaming for the hills while burning witches along the way.)

You: let kids be kids. Don't dose them up with lifelong drugs just because they don't fit some stupid stereotype.

The only similarity is both groups object to dosing up kids with drugs.

The reasons why are actually diametrically opposed.

It’s funny that someone mentioned the ACLU. That would be the same ACLU that controversially supported the right of Nazis to hold a rally in an area with lots of Holocaust survivors. So do we apply the same “lie down with dogs and get fleas” argument to them as well? Here’s the thing...for me, I don’t care if right wing people happen to hold my views so long as I think the underlying principles are correct. The ACLU used to think that protecting free expression and the right to associate was worth protecting, even if it meant siding with nazis. I happen to think that puberty blockers and hormone treatment in young kids doesn’t have enough evidence to justify putting children on life time medicated pathways that result in sterility. The DSM manuals of the past used to say that there was no link between trans adults and trans children (so trans adults were not actually trans children) and in fact doubted that trans children were even a thing. Back in the 80s and 90s the best science said the vast majority of kids presenting as trans went on to live as happy gay or bisexual adults. I don’t believe the science now shows anything different. In fact a new paper out showed the exact same thing we have always known - 90 percent of these children will desist.

The ACLU also supports people's right to hold images of child sex abuse so I wouldn't really take them as an authority on children's safety.

www.acluaz.org/sites/default/files/documents/Tough%20Questions%20about%20ACLU%20Positions.pdf

I’m happy to see Arkansas is going to be protecting kids distressed about gender issues (hopefully they will have put in proper support services for them though- but I’ll bet they haven’t.. ) even as this same state have smashed up girls and women’s rights to abortion within Arkansas.

Removing safe, legal, accessible, affordable abortion risks health, wellbeing and freedom of all female people of reproductive age. This state legislature is more than happy to enforce ‘pro-life’ gender roles on to women, despite the huge risks to female lives, health, income, autonomy and women’s and girls’ ability to live their lives freely. I won’t even go into the issues for the children and families of women who would be forced to continue with unintended pregnancies, (and not that financial help would make banning abortion ok, but I bet Arkansas won’t be providing any practical support around bringing up these children that they want women to be forced to have..?)

Preserving all children’s and young people’s rights to an open future is a fundamental duty of society and government. It’s really important that we point out how morally full of shit it is for a state to give protections around gender dogma that they don’t like to one group, and at the same time force their own deeply damaging gender dogma on to another group (women). I’m happy if ACLU will stand up legally against this trashing of women’s rights because it’s absolutely appalling.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/09/arkansas-abortion-ban-supreme-court-roe-v-wade

If you consistently find yourselves in agreement with the Far Right and Religious Evangelicals, it might be time to question your ideology.

Same old trope.

Shall we start pointing out who people who believe that people can change sex or that those who have the gender identity of woman can access the protections that were set up to address the needs of females due to the sexist discrimination they face due to their sexed body?

A certain French philosopher? People who advocate for lowering the age of consent? People who advocate for the legalization of extreme porn, the lowering of the age of porn actors and who handwave away DV that results in murder as being a problem of female’s eggshell skulls?

People who tell lesbians they cannot protest about their reproductive rights, who had been documented for calling lesbians vile things, who is lauded as a feminist?

Maybe I should post that twitter link with all the quotes from prominent activists.

But women discussing and campaigning to retain and strengthen the rights of women and children against the conflicts of rights of other groups... they are constantly told they are aligned with far right and evangelical religious groups.

Look to those telling us all there is no conflicts at all, and no lowering of safeguarding standards first I suggest and those aligned with them first perhaps.

If you consistently find yourselves in agreement with the Far Right and Religious Evangelicals, it might be time to question your ideology.

When it comes to concerns about the trans-rights agenda, it's a concern shared by many mainstream conservatives and plenty of left-wing voters.

To suggest that it's a "far right" thing isn't even accurate. It's a mainstream position on both the political left and right. (At the voter level if not the party political level.)

Or if the far right and Christian evangelicals are on a certain side, along with a lot of other people, who cares?

If you don't have a better argument than guilt by association, maybe it's time to question your own ideology?

Particularly since your ideology is consistently at odds with the Human Rights Campaign, ACLU and every international health organisation.

Oh well, I would love to care about what all these NGOs think... what's their argument for TWAW? If they all believe this stuff, there must be a good argument for it presumably...

Guilt by association and appealing to authority...

Just bring your freaking argument that TWAW or that puberty blockers really are "reversible".

@yourhairiswinterfire

ACLU, This ACLU?

The same ACLU that thinks writing FACT in capitals before an incorrect statement magically makes it the truth, and writing MYTH in capitals before a correct statement magically makes it a lie.

twitter.com/ACLU/status/1357062150322352131

We're supposed to take them seriously?!

Check the comments and ratios, they're an absolute laughing stock.

Those ratios are GLORIOUS. People really aren't buying it any more, are they?

It does baffle me that that twit Strangio is supposedly an actual lawyer. Appears unable to craft even the most basic argument.