Dr Debbie Hayton interview

[ChristinaXYZ]

In case you haven't seen it.

“I worry that trans people are being used in a political campaign to compromise women’s spaces”

Perhaps Debbie has been able to individuate (in the Jungian integration of the conscious and unconscious self sense) and Robin is at an earlier stage on her journey towards wholeness and self awareness. Perhaps with hindsight it would have been possible without transition, but from the description of dysphoria it sound like it is rather all consuming and not conducive to psychological integration

Yes, i think we all have the tendency to first project ourselves and our issues onto the material world, and try to live them or resolve them that way. Of course, this never works for long because the struggle is an internal one, and it is only on this level that it can can really be resolved.

AGP is not a sexuality and those who say it is,do so in order to minimise the effects on women and piggyback on LGB rights.

Blanchard who discovered/ theorised it says it is best understood as a sexual orientation.

Debbie will also know, and understand well, the power of the trans lobby to enforce compliance,

You mean like getting unions such as the NASUWT to support men's rights to use women's spaces? The trans lobby that helped override the rights of female teachers and students for the paraphilic desires of men?

Haven't you been reading this thread? Women have repeatedly asked Hayton about those guidelines and Hayton has not engaged.

Instead Hayton has taken the opportunity to talk about their own sexuality.

Remind me again why women are supporting Hayton in this?

I have zero interest in why Hayton decided he was a woman and wrote those guidelines.

I would be more impressed if he worked to replace them with support for women's rights.

Blanchard who discovered/ theorised it says it is best understood as a sexual orientation.

Blanchard is a man.

I would be more impressed if he worked to replace them with support for women's rights.

Me too.

'I do think that some of the lines of questioning to Debbie are harsh. I think what they are doing, and admitting so publicly, is brave and with major implication for them in their life. Debbie will also know, and understand well, the power of the trans lobby to enforce compliance, not only in their intimate personal life, but in their public and professional life too.

Debbie's is an important voice in pushing back against this, and I wouldn't want to completely alienate them.'

I second that. I will be forever grateful to Debbie for her stance.

We all should be.

When I first realised the extent of this ideology and its grip, and had conversations with friends and family, all still blind to it, before I found Mumsnet fwr board, Debbie was there, calmly, rationally, eloquently pushing back.

Like it or not, the spin of the Social Justice Movement (and it's manipulative genius) means that anyone who opposes it can be discredited as bigoted oppressors. Harder to dismiss someone who has been there and got the t-shirt.

Blanchard who discovered/ theorised it [AGP] says it is best understood as a sexual orientation

the orientation being rather than attraction towards the opposite or the same sex, to oneself?

yikes

Blanchard who discovered/ theorised it says it is best understood as a sexual orientation.

Best for who? Blanchard's focus was his male patients and frequently failed to consider the impact on children and women.

There are also a number of sexologists proposing that paedophillia is "best seen" as a sexual orientation.

31 Aug 2018 Lisa Muggeridge,
'Social work training: Ever present risk of predatory behaviour'
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FLd0kp_5do

You mean like getting unions such as the NASUWT to support men's rights to use women's spaces? The trans lobby that helped override the rights of female teachers and students for the paraphilic desires of men

Yes, I'm talking about matters such as that. There is no need to rant in order to express or understand the underlying issues at play.

I mean blimey, if we can't agree that being sexually obsessed with yourself is going to make it hard for you to function as a considerate member of your family and society then the dial really is off

this is humaning 101

@Justhadathought

You mean like getting unions such as the NASUWT to support men's rights to use women's spaces? The trans lobby that helped override the rights of female teachers and students for the paraphilic desires of men

Yes, I'm talking about matters such as that. There is no need to rant in order to express or understand the underlying issues at play.

Hayton helped to write those NASUWT guidelines, so has some responsibility for how they are used in schools. He has not stated that they shouldn't be used nor that they need to be rewritten to remove the harmful content. As long as they are used to inform schools, Hayton's words continue to harm women and children.

maybe ask yourself why you make a point of supporting Hayton?

do you make the same point of supporting,say Rachel Rosario Sanchez?

She has been instrumental in highlighting the idiocy going on at Bristol University. This nonsense has taken over her life

There is an active thread about her at the moment - has it drawn your attention? If not, why not? Why does every thread started by Graham Linnehan draw several hundred comments?

We all should be.

Do you include Trans Widows in this obligation to be grateful AdHominemNonSequitur ?

@TinselAngel

We all should be.

Do you include Trans Widows in this obligation to be grateful AdHominemNonSequitur ?

Bold fail. The top line is quoting AdHominemNonSequitur

Hayton helped to write those NASUWT guidelines, so has some responsibility for how they are used in schools. He has not stated that they shouldn't be used nor that they need to be rewritten to remove the harmful content. As long as they are used to inform schools, Hayton's words continue to harm women and children

Yes! And it seems that they they are now fully aware of that. I'm not sure what being in angry attack mode most of the time achieves, though? Or how it helps? ( not referring to your post btw).

I must admit, I find the forensic pointing out of the contradictions in Hayton's stance make me uncomfortable Just

but the problem doesn't lie with the people pointing out the contradictions. It lies with the person whose actions don't match their words

you have a target error. the thing that should make you uncomfortable is the person behaving inconsistently, not the people pointing it out

And it seems that they they are now fully aware of that

Where? DH has avoided answering the questions asked in this thread. Where is that awareness evident & acknowledged?

And how on earth is it acceptable to have co-written something that's been explained in detail impacts female teaching staff, and then 🤷🏻‍♀️ & say/do nothing about it?

I'm not sure what being in angry attack mode most of the time achieves, though? Or how it helps? ( not referring to your post btw).

13th rule of misogyny: Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves

Maybe ask yourself why you make a point of supporting Hayton
Do you make the same point of supporting,say Rachel Rosario Sanchez

Understanding the tactical and strategic importance of things is important if you have a long range goal in mind that you very much want to see achieved.It is possible to be supportive and encouraging of any positive move in that direction.

I'm not that interested in anger for anger's sake; more interested in the gradual unravelling of this ideology that has taken hold. It is not about personalities and personal recrimination.

Hayton helped to write those NASUWT guidelines, so has some responsibility for how they are used in schools. He has not stated that they shouldn't be used nor that they need to be rewritten to remove the harmful content. As long as they are used to inform schools, Hayton's words continue to harm women and children.

NASUWT also partnered CPS, Stonewall, the National Police Chiefs’ and Gendered Intelligence in production of the School Hate Crime Project

This was withdrawn last year after a legal challenge was led by a 14 year old girl.

Safe Schools Alliance
(extract)
30TH APRIL 2020

CPS Guidance withdrawn for review
We have learnt today that The Crown Prosecution Service have withdrawn their schools guidance for review, following a pre-action letter on behalf of a fourteen year old girl.

We are proud to have supported this inspiring teenage girl in her quest for justice. Her determination to see fair play for girls will make a huge difference to the wellbeing of hundreds of thousands of children and young people.

We are grateful to the CPS for withdrawing their schools guidance. While the idea that this guidance would educate students on hate crime and reduce bullying may have been well-intentioned, the effect was quite the opposite. It reinforced sexist and homophobic stereotypes, curtailed free speech and made female students feel unsafe in schools." (continues)

safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/04/30/cps-guidance-withdrawn-for-review/

you have a target error. the thing that should make you uncomfortable is the person behaving inconsistently, not the people pointing it out

This ☝️

I'm not that interested in anger for anger's sake

I don't see anger for anger's sake here. I see people pointing out inconsistency between words and actions. you are interpreting it as excessive anger and irrationality

why is that?

Understanding the tactical and strategic importance of things is important if you have a long range goal in mind that you very much want to see achieved

This is very true although many women and men who identify as 'Gender Critical' still fail to recognise how they are being manipulated and their campaigning compromised by people with different 'long range goals'.

I think you seem to be saying that the inconsistency in Hayton's behaviour, that the fact he effectively put a bomb under his wife and children's lives for his personal gratification shouldn't be discussed because you agree with him about some things Just

is that right?