Pronouns at work...

[truetuesdays]

I know this has been mentioned on here before but where do we actually stand on refusing to put our pronouns on email signatures?? How far can the employer actually take this? Messages come "from above" that we should all now be doing it. I'm not going to.

I'm tempted to just put he/him but I'm aware this is facetious (although what could they really say?)

This is in local government job.

Pronouns are important! What makes you not want to write them? I don't see any issue in popping your pronouns at the bottom of an email.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html%3famp

Tell them it causes problems for women at work and that it's forcing trans people to out themselves vefire they are ready

@Josiemac93

Pronouns are important! What makes you not want to write them? I don't see any issue in popping your pronouns at the bottom of an email.

why are they important?

why should anyone feel the need to point them out?

You may not see any issue but many people do find an issue.

Research shows that if you emphasise that you are female in a workplace you get treated worse - why would anyone want to do that?

Maybe you don’t see any issues, Josiemac, but plenty of people do.
What about trans people who are not “out” at work?
What about women who don’t want to reveal their sex on emails, knowing it will lead to their work being devalued by male recipients?
What about the vast majority of people who don’t have a gender identity (whatever that is) and don’t want to be compelled to go along with someone else’s forced beliefs?

oops crosspost x 3 hahaha.

I think we've seen a few people on here with worries because they have been instructed to announce their pronouns at work.

OP, sadly if you work in local government they are likely to be extremely captured. Does their Equalities policy include the protected characteristic of Sex or have they omitted that and include gender and/or gender identity as well?

If you are feeling brave you could check - and maybe write anonymously to ask them to correct it?

They shouldn't be forcing people to "out" themselves. That's the tack I would take - its actively damaging to people not confident to announce to the world who they are, any more than you should force people to announce their sexuality. Also, evidence to show women constantly reminded of their sex perform worse than when left to get on with it. Plus, having experienced plenty of discrimination based on sex in my career, there is no way I will draw further attention to my sex in work correspondence. Just a smattering of ideas how it negatively impacts their employees (including the very ones they wish to help)

i think it is really important women take a stand on this.... it is very detrimental to them to keep reminding people they are female... I really wish the media would give this some coverage 1. showing WHO is now asking for this and 2. talking about the research and studies that show how it negatively impacts on women

@gardenbird48 I've looked it up and they follow the Public Sector Equality Duty, they list sex and gender reassignment both as protected characteristics

The independent article is brilliant. I'm going to raise a lot of these points, I'm not really afraid of rocking the boat although I have a feeling if push really comes to shove then I won't get much support from my union. I might ask them about this as well (possibly anonymously)

Messages from above? That sounds like bullying to me.

If you Google Mumsnet and pronouns you will find a few useful threads on this OP.

I remember looking at this a while back and there were quite a good few links in the threads you might find useful.

At the bare minimum it is intrusive and it doesn't apply to your job so your employer has no business asking, same as your sexual orientation. You can call 'right to privacy/private life' for your human rights and quote the Human Rights Act 1998 if it gets that far!

If they need your inner leg measurement for inform fair enough but for the rest it's a hard no.

And having looked, all of the literature referenced on the staff portal takes you to Stonewalls website "truth about trans" page

Am I being pernickety in thinking that the ideas promoted there could be construed as the corporate viewpoint???

A queer Facebook friend of mine who is a vocal trans ally posted this. I think the second bullet point is spot on. People don’t need to know my sex in a business transaction. In fact there’s evidence that knowing a correspondent is female can make male clients/customers more difficult.

@Josiemac93

Pronouns are important! What makes you not want to write them? I don't see any issue in popping your pronouns at the bottom of an email.

As a female in a STEM field, who has had men refuse to talk to me due to me being "not qualified" (the qualification being owning a penis) despite being the highest qualified educationally and experience wise in the office... I'd beg to differ. I always signed myself with initial and surname if it was a first contact.

@Josiemac93

Pronouns are important! What makes you not want to write them? I don't see any issue in popping your pronouns at the bottom of an email.

There's a massive issue if you don't believe the pronouns others might use when referring to you are 'yours' in the first place.

@truetuesdays companies used to fall over themselves for Stonewall recognition, so it would not surprise me.

Others and the Independent I hope have given you enough reasons to challenge this being obligatory.

you could even attach this image to your email if you were feeling especially bold

oops it was 2 separate images

I think the easy fall back is that the Yogyakarta principals say you can't force someone to reveal their gender identity.

Pronouns in your signature solves this

Why is it even a problem? Who gives it head space if someone assumes Jamie was a guy not a woman. You introduce yourself and get over it. The only important thing is they don't start treating you like an idiot wheb they discover you are a woman called Jamie.

What possible use is pandering to the idea that it's so traumatic or an insult that someone mistook your name for that of a male or female name.

I go by a unisex name. Lots of people have assumed they'd get some guy show up then got me. But it's really no big deal..why make it one.

'I was speaking to Gender Neutral. They're of the opinion we should do xyz.'

Not difficult. Clear. Work not 'gender' is the focus.

Knowing the sex through pronouns has no advantage, other than to actively discriminate against women in the workplace.

Sex based pronouns only become important when dealing with sex based logistics at work.

Elliot needs to be housed in her own hotel room and Jim and Bob can share.

As Jo is being investigated for sexual harrasment at work we need to ensure he's not dealing with female clients on his own at present.

this! I've had things addressing me as "Mr kit19" so what? I dont retire to a fainting couch, I just correct them.

@Josiemac93

Pronouns are important! What makes you not want to write them? I don't see any issue in popping your pronouns at the bottom of an email.

They have zero importance to my ability to do my job. Luckily my work say they are optional to put on an email signature and I haven't seen anyone do it yet apart from the person who suggested it so it's really a non issue for most people it seems.

Yogyakarta principle 6 is that its ok to offer your pronouns but not demand them of anyone else.
yogyakartaprinciples.org/principle-6/