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Original poster

Chauvin trial re George Floyd - Sky News

291 replies

chilling19 · 31/03/2021 08:42

Is anyone watching this? With the really upsetting and unarguable against video footage I can't see how the defence can build a case. Also the baiting by the defence lawyer of the female EMT witness was horrendous, as was the judge telling her off. She held her ground though, as did the previous child (female) witnesses.

OP posts:
CovoidOfAllHumanity · 02/04/2021 21:03

If you watch the video I cannot see when he would have had the chance to take any drugs. They cuff him very early on whilst he is still in his own car quite a long time (5mins at least) before they put him on the ground.
Before they try to put him in the car or on the ground he gives his name and address completely lucidly.
He is at no point at all overtly aggressive or threatening. The most he does is resist being put into the back of the police car and for that he is put on the floor
He is saying 'I can't breathe' 'mama' as soon as they try to put him in the car from way before he is on the ground
He is begging and pleading 'I'm not like that. I'm not trying to win' and he looks to me pretty submissive but terrified throughout. He appears genuinely afraid he will die. He never utters any threat to anyone else
His mental state doesn't seem normal as to whether that's down to drugs or a panic attack or another mental illness or just bitter past experience I can't say but he appears just absolutely terrified throughout and that leads him to resist when he would have been better served to be compliant.
People on the street advise him to just comply but he seems unable to.
After 5 minutes of the knee on the neck he stops talking and after 6 minutes he stops moving
Passers by can be heard by then expressing concern 'get him up. He can't breathe'
To my eye after 7 mins he stops breathing. By then the passers by are saying 'he's unresponsive, check his pulse'
And still Chauvin keeps his knee on an unresponsive man's chest
When the ambulance arrives after the 9 and a half minutes he has been keeping his knee on the neck of an entirely unresponsive person for at least 2.5 minutes
When they put him on the stretcher and in the ambulance he is clearly dead and no attempt at CPR is made at all.

None of these people gave a shit about his life very clearly.
He wasn't dead already when Chauvin put his knee on his neck.
Even if he was dying (and he doesn't look in any way like he is dying) he could very definitely have been saved and everyone on the street knew it except those officers (none of the rest offer up any challenge to Chauvin)

If Chauvin doesn't get convicted of this then it will be a travesty and there will be protests and violence and not just in the US.

Very similar things have happened and continue to happen to mentally ill black men in police custody in the U.K. so we are not at all blameless

www.inquest.org.uk/leon-briggs-conclusion

ismiseeire · 02/04/2021 21:10

His mental state doesn't seem normal as to whether that's down to drugs or a panic attack or another mental illness or just bitter past experience I can't say but he appears just absolutely terrified throughout and that leads him to resist when he would have been better served to be compliant

He's pleading from the time they try to put him the back of the care that he's 'claustrophobic'. At a certain point where they had him on the ground, he's pleading that he would do it (presumably get into the car). I suspect, though it wil never have been recorded, that he has been a victim of police before. I have. There is no record of it anywhere. That I now have a fear of police would appear insane and like I'm being trouble.

pabloescobarselasticband · 02/04/2021 21:23

@ancientgran he wasn't clearly having a panic attack at all (im a medical professional btw) he was behaving erratically because he was high on opiates! He was anxious and paranoid again caused by the substances he had taken.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 02/04/2021 21:30

Pablo I am also a medical professional and a mental health one at that. You can have no accurate idea of the cause of his mental state from the symptoms.
A number of conditions could show those symptoms

He isn't 'paranoid' as in deluded or psychotic. He is very anxious but you cannot diagnose the cause of that from his mental state without further information.

People have died of head injuries and of diabetes complications because others put them down as drunk or high.

Original poster
chilling19 · 02/04/2021 21:36

Hi all I posted it on the feminist board because of the way the judge dealt with the female EMT. However the discussion has now become much more general. I am happy to request it be moved, but where to?

OP posts:
ismiseeire · 02/04/2021 21:36

He genuniely does seem distressed. He had every opportunity to attempt to flee, to attempt to assault a copper to get free or to simply have fucking knocked both of their noggins together and sped off.
I have experienced a lot in my life and I recognise genuine fear when I see it. If you've been beaten within an inch of your life and you realise that for you, there will be no justice, then, yes, fear kicks in and you comply.

ismiseeire · 02/04/2021 21:39

Black Man Crime: $20 dollar counterfeit bill
White Man Police Crime: Murder

Let's see who wins eh?

MNHQ
EstherMumsnet · 02/04/2021 21:53

Hi all, we are happy for this thread to remain in this topic.

Original poster
chilling19 · 02/04/2021 21:53

Have reported my last post so this thread may be moved. Am GC feminist and have been on here a long time so no nefarious intent.

The theme of racism is there in the reactions of the black members of the crowd who took the stand - all were too terrified to intervene, apart from Charles who broke down on the stand - even he was saying that GF couldn't win. I still maintain that the price of being black shouldn't be death. At the very very least Chauvin should be done for negligent homicide.

OP posts:
Original poster
chilling19 · 02/04/2021 21:53

Esther - that is fine by me.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 02/04/2021 22:07

I think it would be better, in in the news?

I really do. I'll still post!

NiceGerbil · 02/04/2021 22:08

I also wrote a post 9 miles long a bit earlier then lost it Sad

Essentially it was about how some people trust the police etc and some don't. And their views on this and other cases will flow from that.

MyPatchworkQuilt · 02/04/2021 22:17

@MabelPines

Watching this trail is very eye opening because the narrative that we have been told by the media is very different to what is being presented in court. But i can’t understand why they are so keen to paint GF as being a decent man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, when it was entirely his own damn fault he was on meth and using counterfeit money, he deserved to be arrested and charged.

But he didn’t deserve to be killed because of those crimes, as a pp said in a civilised society police should never have the powers to carry out summary justice! The prosecution would have had a much stronger case by presenting the argument that the state has a duty of care not to injure or kill people even if those people are criminals.

I hope that whatever the outcome of the trial the police are given better training in restraint and dealing with vulnerable people, even if that vulnerability is a result of their own bad choices.

We don't know that George knew he was using counterfeit money. If you watch the instore video before he used it, his friend who was his dealer who he was in a car with came up to him in the store, and what appears is that he took the note he had in his hand and changed it for another one. He may not have known, especially given his state. I am not disputing he shouldn't have been arrested.
BoredatHome321 · 02/04/2021 22:20

[quote pabloescobarselasticband]@ancientgran he wasn't clearly having a panic attack at all (im a medical professional btw) he was behaving erratically because he was high on opiates! He was anxious and paranoid again caused by the substances he had taken. [/quote]
that makes it okay then 🥴

NiceGerbil · 02/04/2021 22:32

I don't understand this sort of approach tbh.

It reminds me of when rape victims used to be quizzed over their sexual history and what knickers they were wearing. (Still happens).

So what if he was addicted to opoids? The USA has a massive massive problem with this that cuts across society. Classes races you name it. An enormous amount of people are addicted to these drugs.

He used a dodgy note? Did he know? I assume the suggestion isn't that he forged it himself?
If you are in the UK and ever tried to buy a train ticket or something in a machine and it spat out your pound coin, then it was almost certainly counterfeit. That's why they change the design of money periodically. I really don't understand the significance of this. If you were in normal life in England 15 years ago you have almost certainly possessed and used counterfeit currency.

So... What is the point of this stuff? The man knelt on his neck while he begged for air.

WinterIsGone · 02/04/2021 22:39

Totally agree, well said, NiceGerbil

StocksandScares · 02/04/2021 23:33

This is a very important thread, but it doesn't belong in FWR. I'm baffled by Mumsnet's decision here. Confused

LangClegsInSpace · 03/04/2021 02:44

@EstherMumsnet

Hi all, we are happy for this thread to remain in this topic.
Like many other posters here I am not sure why this thread has been posted in feminism.

It would be great if you could explain why you think it belongs here.

NiceGerbil · 03/04/2021 02:57

You need to @mnhq

PotholeHellhole · 03/04/2021 07:40

I would just like to point out that if you are based in the UK and used cash on a regular basis between 2015 and 2017, you paid with counterfeit coins.

The sheer magnitude of counterfeit pound coins led directly to the introduction of the current one in 2017. At one point in 2015, I decided to check my change for counterfeits regularly with the pious intend of removing them from circulation. I gave up after four days because it was going to be too expensive to carry on. They were that ubiquitous.

MabelPines · 03/04/2021 08:28

Me and another poster tried to get a discussion going about looking at this from a feminist perspective earlier but no one else seemed interested. (See upthread about female police officers)

C130 · 03/04/2021 10:51

@Tibtom

Whether the officers involved at the scene are racist or not is actually irrelevant - the whole US police system is inherently racist. To deny that is to deny reality.

He should be found guilty, and sent to prison for a very long time.

But he shouldn't be found guilty because the systems is racist. If he is found guilty it should be because of his actions.

Is it so hard to understand that his actions could be fuelled by racism? He is not going to say that he treated George that way because he was a black man, is he? Some of the comments on this thread are out of order. The amount of victim blaming is so wrong. So what if he was on drugs, the second the handcuffs were on him, he was defenceless. Shame on those on here with their character trashing of him. If a woman says she has been a victim of sexism, would any one on here be asking for proof? But a victim of racism has to provide evidence? Funny that.
PerveenMistry · 03/04/2021 11:32

@NiceGerbil

I still don't understand why this thread is in feminism?

I also think that televising trials is not a good thing. Like with oj. It just doesn't sit right with me.

The more trials televised the more people will see the inequities in the US justice system.
SunsetBeetch · 03/04/2021 11:40

The more trials televised the more people will see the inequities in the US justice system.

I agree with that.

With regard to the concerns raised in the OP, American lawyers do seem to be generally.more aggressive than we're used to in the UK. Great when it's the prosecution interrogating a suspect, not so great when it's a woman who was just trying to do her job and save a man's life.

Everyone, no matter how scummy, is entitled to a robust defence though. It can be a difficult balance.

(I watch quite a lot of true crime videos on YouTube.)

Dissimilitude · 03/04/2021 11:53

The footage is completely shocking to me, because they clearly felt no duty of care for that man. One could argue whether it was racially driven all day long, but it seems inarguably the case that the power gradient between armed officers and the people under arrest leads to all sorts of abuses we should care about.

I am worried that a murder charge is overreach, however, though I am not familiar with the specifics of how intent to kill has to be evidenced.

Manslaughter is much easier to prove, and hopefully that is enough to put him away for a long time.

Even if they manage to show that he had major health problems which contribute to the death, the callousness with which they treat him is criminal, those officers failed utterly and Chauvin in particular should be jailed for that alone.