17 year old daughter has asked for full sex change.

[LipstickLou]

DD has had lots of issues at school after an attack aged 13. Last week she tried to hurt herself claiming if I didn't support full gender reassignment she would kill herself. She has worn male clothes for 3 years and called herself by various different boy names among her friends. We now have CAMHS involvement. Last year she told me she was a girl and liked boys. I now find her boyfriend is bi sexual with a preference for boys. Her close friends are all LGBTQ. I feel she is being pressurised by these people to have operations that are irreversible. She is the youngest of the group and no longer goes to college. She has followed various YouTubers including 'Miles'. These friends are constantly in the background talking to her at 2am in the morning. I am sick with worry that she will raise the money and go abroad behind my back. I am also heartbroken. She was the queen of pink. She hit puberty at 11 and is quite top heavy which she hates. I am at my wits end. And before I am trolled my best friend is gay and I have employed a number of transgender people. Has anyone received any help for a teen such as mine DD? I really don't think she is thinking about the consequences and her father agrees.

less than 8% of trans people detransition

Where are you getting this information from? I think you might be stating the % of medicalised detransition (those who have had surgery and/or hormones). The rates are higher for ‘social’ transition.

Please be very careful when giving a parent advice to make sure you have evidenced statistics.

Given the history of trauma and resistance to counselling, I was wondering if another approach might be better. EMDR is particularly good for PTSD and seems to require less retelling so can feel much less threatening as an approach. But if even that seems to much maybe something very physical - massage, reflexology etc can help with connecting with her physical body and I know an acupuncturist who has a special interest in treating adolescents with poor mental health.

I know it's perfectly bloody obvious but is she completely aware that she can never actually change sex? That taking testosterone will give her a deep voice, facial and body hair and the ability to pack on muscle, and surgery may give her a facsimile of a male body, but underneath all of that she will still be a slight framed human female with small hands? I was a great big lumbering girl so I would have 'passed' well as a man, but my sister, for example, is a head shorter and many stones lighter, so she wouldn't have.

LipstickLou Gender: A Wider Lens Podcast series is really worth listening to
Two therapists explore the expanding concept of "gender" from a psychological depth perspective.
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/

I was listening to episode 14 this morning and was struck by how potentially relevant it seemed to your posts.

The REAL Ways to Manage Gender Dysphoria
The misinformed presumption that gender dysphoria can only be managed through medication and/or surgery is blown out of the water in this episode. Sasha and Stella emphasize that dysphoria is a type of human distress, like any other. They discuss many different ways to understand, manage, and reduce gender dysphoria.

Links:

“The Detransitioners” by Laura Dodsworth, The Sunday Times
Alternatives to Deal with Gender Dysphoria, by Nelemil
Illusory truth effect
William Glasser’s Emotional Needs
The Time in Between: A Memoir of Hunger and Hope, by Nancy Tucker
“Advice for Gender Dysphoric Teens”
“Storm Warnings,” by Adrienne Rich
Extended Notes

Gender dysphoria is mental distress.
What are some of the best ways to manage gender dysphoria?
If someone is distressed, what should we be looking at?
Insomnia is a manifestation of anxiety.
Are you fixated on a certain type of body and jealous you don’t have it?
The more you see something, even if you don’t believe it at first, the more you accept it as reality later down the line. Be conscious of what you’re exposing yourself to.
If you had mental distress, it was your problem. Therapy wasn’t exactly “the go-to” solution.
Are you a parent in a rush to get your gender dysphoria child better?
There is so much power in working out and owning the changes in your body.
Our bodies can teach us a lot of things if we engage them correctly.
What is social dysphoria?
People are so afraid to say something bad or something else, but it’s your right to feel angry if it angers you!
We come from apes. We were killers for survival and we all have a dark side. In our society, we can’t let that out in a healthy way.
If you believe changing your body will make you happy, you’re going to spend a lot of time in that fantasy.
Exercise: Measure your mood before you go online and after. Do you feel better or worse?
A lot of phobias come from teens coming into their new bodies. New breasts, hair, and period pains.
People are really grappling with the concept of privilege and what means.
It is assumed that people who are privileged have an easy life, but this can end up suppressing a lot of core emotions or minimizing real thoughts.
Many trans people have transitioned, and their feelings of gender dysphoria still remain."
gender-a-wider-lens.captivate.fm/episode/14-the-real-ways-to-manage-gender-dysphoria

If she is threatening suicide to get her own way, she is nowhere near mature enough to make a decision about surgery. I would go with that. There's no point arguing rationally because what she believes is not rational. You can say that there is at least a 2 year waiting list and she would have to speak with counsellors. Presumably, at her age, she can self refer.

I wonder if a martial art or even boxing might make her feel more confident and strong in her body so that she can protect herself. It would show that as a girl she can still do things that she thinks boys and men can do. I am not surprised that the combination of having been attacked , her on line involvement, her group of friends and the general atmosphere towards girls these days is pushing her in the direction of transitioning. But of course she won’t be able to change sex, she will always be a girl and the medical price to pay is a high one in terms of side effects. Try to talk to her about the parts of her body she doesn’t like...she may have been picked on for eg her breasts. But the bf needs to be watched ...if he is gay then he should know that she will not be gay if he transitions and he has no business influencing her. Re your reference to “ gay predatory men” it is very unlikely that she would be seen as male. But yes there are men who are predatory as she probably knows already. So sorry she and you are going through this. She will come out of it but only with your commitment and care .

@APHR0DITE

i just think you should talk to your child : if they really are trans and are not being pressured into it, you misgendering them and deadnaming them is going to make things worse. obviously they cannot get a " sex change " straight away, but maybe you should test out using their preferred name and pronouns? less than 8% of trans people detransition. even if you don't " agree " with what they are doing, using their preferred name and pronouns can help them test out whether or not they really are trans and will probably end up stopping them from making major decisions too soon :]

I do talk to her but she doesn't make sense. I call her by an abbreviation of her male name. She calls herself a girl? I did try to explain what surgery meant and she won't discuss it. I know she dislikes her body I am querying how changing sex will help her. She also uses her feminine name to family and our friends. She is certainly not owning this.

She sounds very confused OP and is making you the enemy so that she has something to fight against. You need to take yourself out of it. Tell her that it's nothing to do with you, you can't make anything happen. She will have to follow the process that everyone does and get herself on a waiting list. If she is proactive enough to do that, you have at least 2 years breathing space and you won't be the enemy any more.

R0wan I’m just listening to the latest Gender podcast too - Stella and Sasha are so great. Thoroughly second this, OP.

@PopperUppleton

I know it's perfectly bloody obvious but is she completely aware that she can never actually change sex? That taking testosterone will give her a deep voice, facial and body hair and the ability to pack on muscle, and surgery may give her a facsimile of a male body, but underneath all of that she will still be a slight framed human female with small hands? I was a great big lumbering girl so I would have 'passed' well as a man, but my sister, for example, is a head shorter and many stones lighter, so she wouldn't have.

I don't think she has any idea how unsuccessful ftm transitions are. My lesbian best friend offered to buy her a strap on John Thomas and she ran from the room. She was talking to her in light of a suicide attempt (she took St John's wort) . My BF has two friends who have transitioned. She offered to speak to her. I don't even think she has had sex yet. She is very reserved and she will need a thick skin for a transgender life. I don't want this for her and fear she will not solve her unhappiness. I have no mother , mother in law and my sister calls her a nutter drama queen.

It sounds as if she's using the issue to excerpt influence? get some sort of reaction? OP as there's a dissonance between demanding such extreme surgery while being unable to to even discuss this? Given her history of disrupted peer relationships with all her school changes it may be that she's found an 'identity' that guarantees her acceptance - maybe even some greater levels of approval. And that if you're feeling uncertain / lonely must be a real relief.
I'd be tempted to remind her that you're on her side, that you just have her interests at heart and that she can speak to you about anything. I'd be 'watchful' but would try not to ask questions about this - rather focus on everything else in her life. Don't let this be the only issue where you have the in depth discussions if you see what I mean?

I totally agree about how she is fighting directly against you and see you as the enemy. I've been through very similar with my daughter who also suffered sexual assault as a 11 year old. She count against me, hated me, tried to destroy me and made my life a living hell. But she did it because she I was there over person that she knew would never turn my back on her.

At 15 she decided to move in with her dad and I was fine (even grateful) for it and it gave us both space. I decided to stop reacting to her drama and tantrums and it worked. I was always there for her though and now at 23 she is very close to me.

I also have two sons that have declared they are trans. The eldest is over it now thank God but the youngest is 17 and convinced he is a girl. He is very gentle and timid and hates toxic masculinity but I know 100% that this trans thing has come from him watching anime porn . I have told him repeatedly that he is not a girl but he accuses me of terfdom and trans hating. We encourage him to wear what he wants and use his name. He is desperate to have his penis removed. I have not reached the point where I am buying time. I've told him that if he still believes he is trans then at age 25 I will pay for him to have private surgery. This has appeased him totally which is crazy as I'm on benefits and he knows I struggle to pay the bills. Where he thinks I'm going to get the money from I don't know! But that's just showing his immaturity . I know he will desist just like his brother.

@APHR0DITE

i just think you should talk to your child : if they really are trans and are not being pressured into it, you misgendering them and deadnaming them is going to make things worse. obviously they cannot get a " sex change " straight away, but maybe you should test out using their preferred name and pronouns? less than 8% of trans people detransition. even if you don't " agree " with what they are doing, using their preferred name and pronouns can help them test out whether or not they really are trans and will probably end up stopping them from making major decisions too soon :]

This is not good advice when you have clearly read that the daughter was attacked at 13 and it changed her behaviour and also the comments she has made about wanting to change for the boyfriend. Your stats are wrong too. The OP will get better advice from the resources already given here rather than set the young person on an irreversible surgical path after it is clear that they are suffering with mental health issues right now.

Less than 8% of people detransition provide you arbitrarily decide those who detransition were never trans in the first place

More worryingly I read some thread that suggested that the mental health of people did not improve long term with transistion

@ChiefBabySniffer

I totally agree about how she is fighting directly against you and see you as the enemy. I've been through very similar with my daughter who also suffered sexual assault as a 11 year old. She count against me, hated me, tried to destroy me and made my life a living hell. But she did it because she I was there over person that she knew would never turn my back on her.

At 15 she decided to move in with her dad and I was fine (even grateful) for it and it gave us both space. I decided to stop reacting to her drama and tantrums and it worked. I was always there for her though and now at 23 she is very close to me.

I also have two sons that have declared they are trans. The eldest is over it now thank God but the youngest is 17 and convinced he is a girl. He is very gentle and timid and hates toxic masculinity but I know 100% that this trans thing has come from him watching anime porn . I have told him repeatedly that he is not a girl but he accuses me of terfdom and trans hating. We encourage him to wear what he wants and use his name. He is desperate to have his penis removed. I have not reached the point where I am buying time. I've told him that if he still believes he is trans then at age 25 I will pay for him to have private surgery. This has appeased him totally which is crazy as I'm on benefits and he knows I struggle to pay the bills. Where he thinks I'm going to get the money from I don't know! But that's just showing his immaturity . I know he will desist just like his brother.

My daughter is a huge anime fan. She is also very gentle. She thinks we could pay for her surgery but I would never do that. I was a business fixer (management consultant) and my wider family use me to get their agenda across. I am always being asked to intervene in matters, help things along etc. This is one time that I am not going to do that so she hates me. She also envies her brother whom the whole family call the 'golden child'- big sports star. university first. Now civil servant. Very masculine, very bossy. Everyone's friend. head boy etc. they don't like each other much and when she was attacked he refused to believe her as it happened at his school.

More worryingly I read some thread that suggested that the mental health of people did not improve long term with transistion

There are some stats around for that. But also it is anecdotal evidence from clinicians. Particularly they say, where past trauma or mental health issues have not been treated as a priority.

OP, my heart aches for you both.

I'm sure you'll get good support and advice from the links already mentioned above.

It sounds like the attack on your daughter has had a huge impact. Glad to hear you have professional help with this. I hope you're able to take time to look after your own needs, too, this must be very stressful for you.

As ever I think the most important things are connection, active listening, empathy and support, as well as setting firm boundaries. Teenagers aren't children, but all humans have the same basic needs - to feel safe, heard and understood. Sometimes children & YP kick against boundaries because they really want and need someone to firmly set them, if that makes sense.

My son was badly bitten aged 2 and went through a phase of biting me - I had to physically pull him off me and when I finally was totally firm and made it clear I wouldn't allow him to hurt me, he was able to process the feelings of hurt and confusion that he'd been carrying. Boundaries help a child/person feel safe. Empathic boundaries - not always an easy balance to get right, but I feel it is key.

Special time is what works best for us - I wonder about taking a holiday or setting a weekly two hours aside to spend purely with your daughter, and her alone, would help? Bearing in mind there may be emotional upheaval and upset as your DD feels safer and more able to open up. It's actually a good sign - that she feels safe, supported and listened to and able to talk.

Active listening is also an art - knowing when to be quiet, when to reflect and show you have heard.

www.ahaparenting.com/ages-stages/teenagers

A couple of books that may be useful -

Staying connected to your teenager, Michael Riera

Untangled - Lisa Damour

Wishing you both all the very best.

Apologies if this is utterly crass, but in your position I would be looking for an overseas volunteering opportunity and I would take a sabbatical from work. Somewhere she'd be away from awful bf and internet.
It sounds desperate and I really feel for you all.

Oh poor girl, a shiny big brother who dismisses her assault and is someone everyone looks up to and lauds, a boyfriend pressuring her, a toxic online life and surrounded by examples of trans people being celebrated, centred in everything, special. No wonder she doesn't want to be who she is.

You need to have severe words with your son - he needs to apologise, listen to her, and actually hear her.

This must be so hard for you and your daughter

I am using "she" because I assume that's the pronoun that she uses, and that you are respecting it. If you aren't, that's a whole other issue.

She will not be allowed to medically transition on the NHS without a lot of counselling which includes a great deal of emphasis on the consequences of transition on fertility, for example It requires her to interact with physcologists, psychotherapists and psychiatrists, as well as having family therapy. In addition, unless she is diagnosed with GD, she won't be treated. The waiting list is very long, and there is no rush (at least medically speaking) because it's too late for puberty blockers. If she wants to go on the waiting list, she's still a couple of years away from anything irreversible, and you could support that. Refusing it may alienate her.

Destransitioning is very rare, but desisting (usually before puberty) is quite common. Medical transition really helps many transgender people, but it is not a panacea. Finally, many transgender people do not medically transition.

It sounds like you are accepting of her and not putting pressure on her to change her sense of self while it's still developing. I think watchful waiting is the best approach.

when she was attacked he refused to believe her as it happened at his school

WTF! Well I hope the golden child has fallen off his pedestal now. I would be absolutely furious with my son if he behaved like that. Have you spoken to him about it? I think this changes everything OP. If you have not addressed this with him I can see how she resents you and hates herself.

@DadJoke

I am using "she" because I assume that's the pronoun that she uses, and that you are respecting it. If you aren't, that's a whole other issue.

She will not be allowed to medically transition on the NHS without a lot of counselling which includes a great deal of emphasis on the consequences of transition on fertility, for example It requires her to interact with physcologists, psychotherapists and psychiatrists, as well as having family therapy. In addition, unless she is diagnosed with GD, she won't be treated. The waiting list is very long, and there is no rush (at least medically speaking) because it's too late for puberty blockers. If she wants to go on the waiting list, she's still a couple of years away from anything irreversible, and you could support that. Refusing it may alienate her.

Destransitioning is very rare, but desisting (usually before puberty) is quite common. Medical transition really helps many transgender people, but it is not a panacea. Finally, many transgender people do not medically transition.

It sounds like you are accepting of her and not putting pressure on her to change her sense of self while it's still developing. I think watchful waiting is the best approach.

She says she. I think she will not pass as having GD. She doesn't like her body (what teenager does?). The Christmas she met this boy she was wearing my new 4 inch heels and a hourglass dress. make up and Beyonce hair. She will hope to skip the waiting list and use family money to pay privately. I have tried to stop the money and I can't.

@WallaceinAnderland

when she was attacked he refused to believe her as it happened at his school

WTF! Well I hope the golden child has fallen off his pedestal now. I would be absolutely furious with my son if he behaved like that. Have you spoken to him about it? I think this changes everything OP. If you have not addressed this with him I can see how she resents you and hates herself.

Yes we have addressed it with him and the school. In light of the recent news stories I think it will be revisited by their safeguarding team. This is an outstanding academy in a smart market town with 0 % bullying (yeah right ) Oh and he has fallen off his pedestal and has moved out.

@Replays

Apologies if this is utterly crass, but in your position I would be looking for an overseas volunteering opportunity and I would take a sabbatical from work. Somewhere she'd be away from awful bf and internet. It sounds desperate and I really feel for you all.

I have retired so I can take her away later in the year. She wants to go to Florence so see the paintings. I think she would love the culture and she is very pretty even with a short back and sides. I think her friends are toxic.