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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

AZ clotting issue affects mainly women

138 replies

womanity · 31/03/2021 00:40

According to Germany.

The German medicines regulator, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, has found 31 cases of cerebral sinus vein thrombosis (CSVT) among people who received AstraZeneca in Germany.
Almost all the cases are reportedly in younger and middle-aged women.

Covid: Germany limits use of AstraZeneca Covid jab for under-60s www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56580728

It would be interesting to know if, for example, Canada was able to give us similarly clear statistical evidence by sex.

OP posts:
Original poster
womanity · 31/03/2021 01:05

(The U.K. cases were apparently all in men though, so I’m not attributing anything meaningful to this - it’s just interesting that it’s being reported by sex.)

OP posts:
Tibtom · 31/03/2021 01:18

More relevant would be how does the rate of CSVT in the vaccinated population compare with the unvaccinated population? A quick google suggests a rate of 3-4 per million in an unvaccinated population (7 per million for children) and it occurs more frequently in younger people and 3:1 in women.

31 as a standalone figure is pretty meaningless.

NiceGerbil · 31/03/2021 01:20

Did they test the vaccine on both sexes as thoroughly is my first question

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 31/03/2021 01:33

They haven't actually had any cases in Canada so they don't have any data. They went ahead with the pause based on the German data

Mygardenisnotperfect · 31/03/2021 01:37

Interestingly I’ve seen 2 cases of CSVT in the past year, one in a woman in her late 20s and one in a woman in her early 50s. Both happened not long after the first wave of COVID and I’m now wondering if they may have been linked to COVID infection. It is such a rare issue that it was a bit unsettling to see two of them within the space of a couple of months. Fortunately haven’t seen any since vaccinations started personally but it’s a rare illness.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 31/03/2021 01:37

This condition is too rare to be picked up in a clinical trial. If it's 1 in a million then you are going to need many millions in a trial to pick it up.
No trial would ever have sufficient participants to pick up something as rare as this so how good the trial data are is kind of irrelevant to the issue although both men and women of all ages were enrolled in the AZ trial. I was in it myself.

Mygardenisnotperfect · 31/03/2021 01:40

I should add that I’m a GP! I am also wondering if there is a true link why we don’t seem to be seeing the same issues in the UK, but one possibility could be that if this is a COVID type issue, that maybe the people who had the right genetic and immune system types for this had already had these issues from the acute COVID infection as we did such a bad job of not letting it rip through the population in the first place... rather than getting this as a result of the vaccine? I have zero evidence for this by the way, just thinking aloud.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 31/03/2021 01:43

If it's related to an autoimmune condition then those are always more common in women.

IridecentPearl · 31/03/2021 02:16

Germany have only vaccinated 11% of the population, that works out around 1 case per 305 000. Would be interested in seeing the non vac population case numbers.

Hibari · 31/03/2021 05:52

We're more at risk of clotting than men in general so it's no big surprise.

Cuntryhouse · 31/03/2021 06:01

It is a good point though, and something I'd not thought of. Will Canada announce their gender results??

NewYearNewTwatName · 31/03/2021 06:18

Canada have had no cases.
quote from another thread.


Yesterday 00:11 Defaultname

LimitIsUp

wow

So now Canada pausing AZ

“I do want to say this is a pause while we wait for more information to better understand what we are seeing in Europe," Dr Reimer said.

She said the rare type of blood clot typically happens between four and 20 days after getting the shot and the symptoms can mirror a stroke or heart attack.

Dr Reimer said medics have not seen any of these cases in Canada

NewYearNewTwatName · 31/03/2021 06:20

Sorry also the link the quote from the Dr comes from

www.standard.co.uk/news/world/canada-pause-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-jab-under-55s-b926930.html

Cuntryhouse · 31/03/2021 06:35

Yes but if it does have cases, it won't be able to report on sex.

Geamhradh · 31/03/2021 06:39

@IridecentPearl

Germany have only vaccinated 11% of the population, that works out around 1 case per 305 000. Would be interested in seeing the non vac population case numbers.
They're on many of the threads about this in the Coronavirus topic. I can't remember off the top of my head but it's much much higher than those which have happened after AZ. Like the incidences with Pfizer are about the same as AZ but the smear campaign for AZ isn't going to stop any time soon I fear.
Mn753 · 31/03/2021 06:42

Some are saying could be linked to contraceptive pill. Because it's fine to give something to women and girls that causes blood clots. Just not real people (men).

NewYearNewTwatName · 31/03/2021 06:48

Cuntryhouse ahh yes I see.

you've right, I haven't been on this board for a while, so had forgotten about that.

Unescorted · 31/03/2021 06:53

31 cases in 2.7m doses according to the article. That is 0.001%. compared to the 2.9 % of people who have died after contracting Coronovirus (using yesterdays dashboard numbers).

Cuntryhouse · 31/03/2021 06:54

I think that's what the op was getting at.

Flywheel · 31/03/2021 07:46

I've seen people musing on European forums whether the reason UK are not seeing cases is because they are using AZ in the older population. It is banned in a lot of countries for over 70s due to the initial lack of data in that age group, so all doses are going to younger people.
I agree, statistically AZ is still very safe and I'd be delighted to be offered it. For the young and healthy population, it may be a harder sell and they may prefer to take their chances with the virus.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2021 07:50

I wonder if they've cross correlated with the type of contraception.

Tibtom · 31/03/2021 07:53

The oldest age groups in the uk got pfizer due to vaccine rollout dates. But I do wonder about rollout in other countries if they are vaccinating more younger people when they have only vaxccinated 11 % of the population?

toffeebutterpopcorn · 31/03/2021 07:55

@ErrolTheDragon

I wonder if they've cross correlated with the type of contraception.
That’s what I wondered?
GrumpyHoonMain · 31/03/2021 07:57

India is using it under a different brand name and there have been no clotting issues reported in the under 60s despite clotting disorders and conditions causing clotting disorders being higher there. Same with the UK - over here the clotting issues have been with men and are related to Pfizer - despite younger people being vaccinated in quite large numbers at local vaccination centres

Scout2016 · 31/03/2021 07:58

In Caroline Criado Perez's newsletter (which someone on here recommended- thanks!) she discusses this. It's linked to the combined pill and pill being a risk factor explained the age and sex of those most common to have it. She included a link to this article.
www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n774