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Original poster

AZ clotting issue affects mainly women

138 replies

womanity · 31/03/2021 00:40

According to Germany.

The German medicines regulator, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, has found 31 cases of cerebral sinus vein thrombosis (CSVT) among people who received AstraZeneca in Germany.
Almost all the cases are reportedly in younger and middle-aged women.

Covid: Germany limits use of AstraZeneca Covid jab for under-60s www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56580728

It would be interesting to know if, for example, Canada was able to give us similarly clear statistical evidence by sex.

OP posts:
Original poster
womanity · 31/03/2021 08:00

@Cuntryhouse

Yes but if it does have cases, it won't be able to report on sex.
Yes, that was my point.

If there’s a particular kind of person that’s more likely to be affected by something, it’s good, useful and right that you’re able to measure and track that and inform those people.

Through shooting ourselves in the foot, we’re pretty far down the path of not being able to track that anymore, Canada moreso. And if clotting is more prevalent in women, then ofc, it’ll be women more at risk.

Sex matters. Women matter.

OP posts:
Original poster
womanity · 31/03/2021 08:05

[quote Scout2016]Newsletter link newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-sex-disaggregated-blood-clots-462065[/quote]
That newsletter is great - thanks for posting.

OP posts:
Scout2016 · 31/03/2021 08:21

Welcome. I learn so much from this forum - such clued up posters - I'm always keen to pass it on and return the favour where possible.

ErrolTheDragon · 31/03/2021 09:08
  • Through shooting ourselves in the foot, we’re pretty far down the path of not being able to track that anymore, Canada moreso. And if clotting is more prevalent in women, then ofc, it’ll be women more at risk.

It's shooting everyone in the foot. If there were increased risks for something for females on testosterone or males on oestrogen, that would be unrecognised unless there's clear unambiguous data.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/03/2021 11:23

We're more at risk of clotting than men in general so it's no big surprise.

Who is "we"? What's a man? Is that anyone who identifies as a man, Hibari?

andyoldlabour · 31/03/2021 12:46

Geamhradh

I posted on another forum about the problems with the Pfizer vaccine compared to the Astra Zeneca one. The press seems to be ignoring problems with the Pfizer vaccine, despite the fact that 23 people in a Norwegian care home died shortly after having it.
I think it is political, because the Astra Zeneca vaccine is a fraction of the cost of the Pfizer one.

Gingernaut · 31/03/2021 12:49

[quote Scout2016]Newsletter link newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-sex-disaggregated-blood-clots-462065[/quote]
When I saw the ages of the women who died and who are no longer being given the AZ vaccine, I did wonder about contraceptive pills.

Original poster
womanity · 31/03/2021 13:19

Isn’t it interesting that when we read it’s women affected we immediately think of contraceptives and hormones, not whether or not they liked playing with dolls or wearing pink?

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/03/2021 13:26

Oh! Let there be more on this. If we are going to have to suffer through much more than this re Covid at least let it be repsonsible for some gender bubbles bursting!

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/03/2021 13:28

@Mygardenisnotperfect

Interestingly I’ve seen 2 cases of CSVT in the past year, one in a woman in her late 20s and one in a woman in her early 50s. Both happened not long after the first wave of COVID and I’m now wondering if they may have been linked to COVID infection. It is such a rare issue that it was a bit unsettling to see two of them within the space of a couple of months. Fortunately haven’t seen any since vaccinations started personally but it’s a rare illness.
That's a very interesting observation! It sounds feasible that it might have been existing infection.
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/03/2021 13:32

NB - on a general note, a lot of the relevant journals are signatories to SAGER ( Sex and Gender Equity in Research - including sex disaggregation of data amongst other things )but they don't implement it.

www.equator-network.org/reporting-guidelines/sager-guidelines/

researchintegrityjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s41073-016-0007-6

timeisnotaline · 01/04/2021 04:28

I don’t understand how this can be a thing if there are no cases in the 10m people vaccinated in the uk, and the clotting cases observed in the us was quite different. (One of the articles linked says this). To me that as a statistical result says it’s not specifically vaccine linked unless there is something different about people living in Europe?

MissBarbary · 01/04/2021 13:31

I don't think I would believe a single word about Astra Zenica if it emanated from an EU country.

I'm sure I've seen all this debunked that the numbers affected by clotting are so miniscule that it is far more likely that it was just a coincidence than related to the vaccine.

For what it's worth I have a genuine risk of clotting and have received the AZ vaccination.

nauticant · 01/04/2021 13:37

The way the cases seem to be so uncorrelated across countries is an indication that the specifics of the vaccine delivery and resultant data collection in the individuals countries are playing a significant role.

My theory is that the hyper focus on finding problems in those vaccinated is finding cases of blood clots that are not being found in the general population which isn't being subject to a similar hyper focus.

Tibtom · 01/04/2021 14:01

Despite all their 'issues' with AZ the EU are still mighty upset not have more of it.

nauticant · 01/04/2021 14:20

That's what you get when science is used to serve political purposes (to some degree). Mind you, Astra Zeneca haven't always helped their own cause, there have been a number of vaccine announcements in the past 6 months that appeared to have been influenced by company PR.

MissBarbary · 01/04/2021 15:16

@Tibtom

Despite all their 'issues' with AZ the EU are still mighty upset not have more of it.
Indeed.
Thelnebriati · 01/04/2021 15:22

Would any results from Canada be included in world wide stats? Canada records 'gender' by self identification and not 'sex'.

Original poster
womanity · 01/04/2021 15:42

@Thelnebriati

Would any results from Canada be included in world wide stats? Canada records 'gender' by self identification and not 'sex'.
Anybody studying it would look worldwide even if no-one complied worldwide stats, IFSWIM.

So I would hope it’s clear what exactly is being measured/reported.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 01/04/2021 17:43

But there are no accurate sex based results from countries that have self ID, so would they be included with results from other countries? Or are they kept separate?

Zeev · 01/04/2021 18:54

@timeisnotaline

I don’t understand how this can be a thing if there are no cases in the 10m people vaccinated in the uk, and the clotting cases observed in the us was quite different. (One of the articles linked says this). To me that as a statistical result says it’s not specifically vaccine linked unless there is something different about people living in Europe?
The age cohorts are different. The people vaccinated with AZ in the UK are mostly 55+. The people vaccinated with AZ in the EU are mostly under 50. This might have a lot to do with it.

The other possibility is different production facilities. The UK version was made in the UK, the EU version in Belgium.

The clotting phenomenon is slightly strange; it resembles DIC where thrombocytes crash very low but blood still clots. It does seem to be a real phenomenon, it is now researched by real scientists, who publish in real scientific journals. It is not just us silly Euros playing with politics. Hmm

Whatever the issue is, it is very very rare and the risk of a clotting issue is most certainly less with the vaccination than with COVID. But it might make sense to direct AZ to different age groups than Pfizer / Moderna.

FWIW my parents are getting the AZ soon and are not worried.

3timeslucky · 01/04/2021 19:34

@Mygardenisnotperfect

I should add that I’m a GP! I am also wondering if there is a true link why we don’t seem to be seeing the same issues in the UK, but one possibility could be that if this is a COVID type issue, that maybe the people who had the right genetic and immune system types for this had already had these issues from the acute COVID infection as we did such a bad job of not letting it rip through the population in the first place... rather than getting this as a result of the vaccine? I have zero evidence for this by the way, just thinking aloud.
Could it be because the UK is only now embarking on large numbers in the under 50s age group? Though I'm assuming many of the healthcare workers vaccinated already were women under 50.
MissBarbary · 01/04/2021 20:36

@Thelnebriati

But there are no accurate sex based results from countries that have self ID, so would they be included with results from other countries? Or are they kept separate?
The proportion of people who self ID as different from their biological sex must be miniscule compared to the millions of people who have had the vaccination.