AZ clotting issue affects mainly women

[womanity]

According to Germany.

The German medicines regulator, the Paul Ehrlich Institute, has found 31 cases of cerebral sinus vein thrombosis (CSVT) among people who received AstraZeneca in Germany.
Almost all the cases are reportedly in younger and middle-aged women.

Covid: Germany limits use of AstraZeneca Covid jab for under-60s www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56580728

It would be interesting to know if, for example, Canada was able to give us similarly clear statistical evidence by sex.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity
www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/coronavirus-covid-seven-blood-clots-dead-astrazeneca-vaccine-b927704.html

Sorry not caught up

News earlier had an expert on saying risk of blood clots with hormonal contraception is higher than this risk.

Felt like a weird take to me. Oh well women take more risks to stop getting pregnant so whatever.

The fact that we take risks to stop getting pregnant is not a reason to say ah well they're used to this sort of shit

'A lot of medications carry risks like hormonal birth control but we decide whether the benefits outweighs the risk '

Hormonal contraception is seen as a totally normal thing, I'm sure lots of women do no weighing up
I don't remember the risks really being pointed out
Pregnancy is a major thing to avoid. Abortion or having a baby. Both are a big deal.

I find this comparison glib.

Hormonal cobtraceptives are not the only way to avoid getting pregnant so the comparison is not hormonal contraceptive vs pregnancy

@Fieldofmemes

Could people please stop referring to statistics for "strokes" or "blood clots" generally? The condition is CVST or VIPIT, an extremely rare type of stroke, the incidence of which is (usually) 3 or 4 in a million annually.

How many people worldwide have received the vaccine? Up to mid March it is 17 million in the Uk and EU. How many people worldwide have had one of this type of stroke? One should expect an incidence of 68 if its generally 4 per million.

www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/update-on-the-safety-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca.html

*careful review of all available safety data of more than 17 million people vaccinated in the European Union (EU) and UK with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca has shown no evidence of an increased risk of pulmonary embolism, deep vein thrombosis (DVT) or thrombocytopenia, in any defined age group, gender, batch or in any particular country.

So far across the EU and UK, there have been 15 events of DVT and 22 events of pulmonary embolism reported among those given the vaccine, based on the number of cases the Company has received as of 8 March. This is much lower than would be expected to occur naturally in a general population of this size and is similar across other licensed COVID-19 vaccines. The monthly safety report will be made public on the European Medicines Agency website in the following week, in line with exceptional transparency measures for COVID-19.

Furthermore, in clinical trials, even though the number of thrombotic events was small, these were lower in the vaccinated group. There has also been no evidence of increased bleeding in over 60,000 participants enrolled*

Does this rare type of clot normally occur in all ages, or older ages, so this specific under 60 age group is atypical? Are we not yet seeing the true level as we have vaccinated by decreasing age plus vulnerable people ? Does this clot normally occur with low platelets or is this an abnormal condition ?

Clotting with low platelets is a very bizarre rare thing. Usually low platelets cause bleeding because platelets make blood clot. This is not the same as normal DVTs and PEs

This rare thing (being called VIPIT) is seen with heparin injections (then called HIT) at a much higher rate than with the vaccine. People accept heparin post op with no questions asked.

It is certainly plausible that it could be a drug related side effect but a very rare one
The flu jab is commonly recognised to have a 1 in a million chance of causing GBS but people still have it
This is that kind of a thing serious but very very rare.

As it is so rare (2-15 per million) it is not known what the risk factors really are

Even IF it is caused by the vaccine (which is not certain)
And IF it's common in younger women (also not certain)
Then the risk is still thousands of times smaller than the risk of dying of COVID
A risk of 1/100,000 which is the highest risk anyone has estimated on the German data is a very very small risk

People keep saying
'But I'm at low risk of COVID as a young woman'
Yes that's right you are
But you are at even lower risk from being vaccinated and still you are obsessed with that tiny risk?
I just don't get it myself.

I am pro vaccines. But I am also pro not treating people like idiots.

Comparing the perceived risk to women from the AZ vax to a risk people take when accepting heparin AFTER HAVING HAD AN OPERATION is treating people like idiots. It’s not a fair comparison. After an op you are more at risk of blood clots than normal times. Our appetite to risk is always relative - I’d take all sorts of risks when I’m already lying on an operating table with my body cut open. On a normal day when I’m otherwise fit and healthy? My relative risk calculations are different. That’s why people need to see the actual relative numbers here.

Would be grateful if someone could clarify if the 1 in 100k risk cited from the German numbers is age and sex specific. As almost all the cases in Germany were women, perhaps it would be more appropriate to say the risk is around 1 in 50k (or possibly around 1:60k, as I would guess more women under 60 have had the vax than men, assuming health and care workers have been vaxed first).

We also need to know what the real current risk from covid by sex and age is. One thing is your risk of dying/being hospitalised once you have caught covid, but at this point in the pandemic, with numbers falling each day, I suspect people are also wondering about what their risk of actually catching it is. That may well be viewed as a selfish way to see things - basically piggy backing off the immunity of others (although of course some of us may already have had covid without knowing it, which may convey some immunity and add another dimension to the relative risk calculations. Some of these calculations people are trying to do for themselves may also be short termist - sooner or later a new variant will be along, and cases may sadly rise again - but so too might a new vaccine. But these are calculations people want to do. They are doing them for so many reasons. Given the risk we’re concerned about at present is mainly to women under 55, we’re talking about a lot of mothers, who are fearful about the impact on their children, or others they care for should they be one of the unlucky few. Please let’s not treat people like idiots. Give them the relevant numbers, and if necessary, give them access to an alternative vaccine.

Am I being thick here, but if they've identified that women of a certain age bracket are more at risk from clots from the AZ vaccine then why aren't they being offered the other vaccine with no risks as a routine?

I have had my vaccine even though I am very low risk in terms of health and age group, but was not completely confident to do so as any queries were brushed off. Any other medicine they recognise risk but put it in context in terms of percentage. With this they just seem to loudly deny as risk whatsoever, even as evidence to the contrary comes to light. Surely it would be better to address concerns than ignore them. It makes it look like there is something to hide.

With COVID infection you are more at risk than at a normal time

It is in no way clear that this is an issue affecting only younger women
The sex and breakdown of the U.K. cases isn't published but the first 5 cases were in men.

Your risk of catching COVID is so dependent on your personal circumstances, National rates, public policy ie easing of lockdown, how many other people are vaccinated

When we had an outbreak at my work 100% of us caught it. my personal risk of catching it then was 100%

Right now it would be a lot less
Tomorrow it could go up again

I wasn't trying to be flippant or patronising giving the heparin example

People are very routinely injected with heparin in hospitals even if they haven't had an op. If you are less mobile than usual it will be recommended and most people blindly accept it with little discussion

People on other threads have had heparin injections after a broken arm and after a C section which are common things that many people might experience. Having heparin injections in hospital is seen as a very normal routine thing that is offered with a pretty low threshold to many, if not most, hospital inpatients.

COVID infection is strongly associated with clotting risk and people who are hospitalised with COVID are routinely injected with heparin so between the heparin and the COVID you'd be at higher risk of HIT of you did get COVID than with the vaccine.