Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Will go on its website on Wednesday to get public feedback

@MichelleofzeResistance

Or play themselves.

Of course. Apologies for missing this one out.

This is so retrograde. My daughters first bf was 6ft 7in at seventeen years of age. Very fit , did martial arts etc. But his mum wouldn't let him play rugby.There are way too many collisions in today's game and players are "bulked up" more than ever.Wtf are the RFU lawyers thinking of?

Yes, married to a rugby player, mum to two rugby players, member of a premiership side since I was 16...I feel perfectly entitled to comment even if I have never played.

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

No it’s not.

I have just gone outside to our outdoor games box and picked up the mini rugby ball whilst identifying as a rugby player. I presume I am ok to comment now as that is generally all that is required elsewhere.

Major problem with that survey
(a) no checks on people filling it out more than once
(b) free text boxes will invalidate their data
snigger

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

Imagine how women would react if men decided that they were now women and women were to be renamed, silenced, marginalised and all our sports and safe single sex spaces removed by said males...... oh wait.....

DisgustedofManchester

"Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control."

This is random blokes deciding that male bodied players can play in female sport.

I have a family member who coaches and plays men's rugby. There is a big problem in the sport at the moment with teenage boys realising they do not have the physique to play at a professional level. Male rugby players are significantly taller and heavier on average than they were just 20 years ago, making it far harder for another Austin Healey or Jonny Wilkinson to come through the sport. It would only take a few of these boys to realise self-id is less risky than steroids to make a massive difference to the women's sport.

It would only take a few of these boys to realise self-id is less risky than steroids to make a massive difference to the women's sport.
I believe the word is destroy

at a time when the women's game is becoming really good to watch

@EsmaCannonball

I have a family member who coaches and plays men's rugby. There is a big problem in the sport at the moment with teenage boys realising they do not have the physique to play at a professional level. Male rugby players are significantly taller and heavier on average than they were just 20 years ago, making it far harder for another Austin Healey or Jonny Wilkinson to come through the sport. It would only take a few of these boys to realise self-id is less risky than steroids to make a massive difference to the women's sport.

New Zealand Rugby has dealt with this by introducing an under 85kg club league so that players who aren't the hulking mass required in the professional men's game can still enjoy the sport. Can you imagine the potential for English participation if the RFU spent its time on value-add ideas like this rather than trying to fit people who have gone through male puberty in the women's game? 🤷🏻‍♀️

My former international level playing friend shared some stuff on her Facebook last night on this, and guess what, supporters of transwomen in rugby aren’t happy about this fudge either. They feel it’s treating women as being weak, and that it’s sexist to think that women can’t handle playing transwomen? Then they list all of the current female players who would be excluded on account of being too tall/heavy, though they seem to have missed the point that none of them are trans.

So it’s unfair because a 170cm, 80kg woman and a 170 cm, 80kg transwoman are the same. No acknowledgement of the impact of a male puberty.

And no mention of transmen at all, of course, despite that being the largest population of applicants under the proposed policy.

I.don’t.get.it.

Photos of the post, which is from a group called rugby for all, to follow

Rugby For All

I can’t get the other photos to post.

Text says:

thirdly, what kind of training would coaches undergo to make them “qualified” to make these kinds of judgement calls? Four, would this ever be proposed for men’s rugby? Women do not need your “protection”, especially strong, rugby women. This is sexist af. Five, STOP POLICING WOMENS BODIES.

Very interesting Sophocles! Thanks for posting.

Let’s hope RFU get their arse handed to them from all sides then.

FWIW, I totally agree with the first part of point two. They are arbitrary numbers.

Also agree with point 3, and can’t really disagree with point 4 at this stage.

Oh they do love to use the words of women don't they?

Sadly many don't realise what has been coopted and will agree!

@Leafstamp

Very interesting Sophocles! Thanks for posting.

Let’s hope RFU get their arse handed to them from all sides then.

FWIW, I totally agree with the first part of point two. They are arbitrary numbers.

Also agree with point 3, and can’t really disagree with point 4 at this stage.

Yes, they are entirely arbitrary numbers.

Cis women - don't exist! They mean women, and however tall, broad, strong a specific woman is is natural to women. We aren't all cookie cutter cute!

And discriminatory means denying someone their rights. Men have no rights to play in womens rugby!

Exactly, leafstamp- there are a lot of points of agreement here! the numbers are arbitrary, we’ve no idea the basis on which the panel would make decisions, this is sexist af, and no of course it would never happen in men’s rugby (please, my trans ally friend, ask yourself why that is for goodness sake, you are so, so close to the answer).

But come on, what does “first, gross” even mean? You’ve put it as the first point, so it’s the most important part, so please tell me, what is gross about trying to keep rugby safe?

TRAs are encouraging people to feedback on that survey so despite its limitations it’s important that women do it as well.

FWIW, I totally agree with the first part of point two. They are arbitrary numbers.

The policy says that the height and weight figures were picked as they are the 90th centile for females (can’t remember if it said female rugby players or females in general).

@jellyfrizz

FWIW, I totally agree with the first part of point two. They are arbitrary numbers.

The policy says that the height and weight figures were picked as they are the 90th centile for females (can’t remember if it said female rugby players or females in general).

Why 90th centile? Why not 91st or 89th?

Yes, I wasn’t clear on that point either, jellyfrizz, but they are arbitrary in the sense that as far as I’m aware, the performance gap between men and women doesn’t have a direct correlation to height/weight.

I’m outside the height cutoff by quite a long way, and Depending on how hard I’ve hit the gym and what my pie consumption is like, I hover in and out of the weight cutoff. I don’t get why women are taking offence at it- I don’t think it makes me a man, or masculine, why would it I’m a tall, strong woman who could still get the shit kicked out of her on the pitch by a man she towers over.

You’ll need to ask the RFU that. A nice round number at the upper end I imagine.

I agree it’s a shit solution for everyone.
Female rugby players, of any size are disadvantaged and larger trans women who are probably going to struggle the most with dysphoria and prejudice as gender says feminine women are small & petite are being excluded.

I know this thread has pretty much stopped but I've just read comments on an article on FB. Predictably there are "Why don't the women say no, we're not having it?"