Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Will go on its website on Wednesday to get public feedback

I was just reading the newsletter, too, 334bu!

Caroline gets it, I’m sure.

newsletter.carolinecriadoperez.com/issues/invisible-women-it-s-official-women-are-non-men-503519

In case anyone wants to read whole newsletter.

Place marking so I can respond when I've calmed down. The RFU are insane.

Research is often not done in women because of our menstrual cycles and pregnancy. We are more complicated meaning larger sample sizes are needed.

Bit of a last fucking cop out that isn't it

Absolutely. I had noticed a nearby research establishment was often advertising for male participants and vaguely wondered why they never seemed to be recruiting women for research projects involving us. Then about a year ago someone who worked there explained they only did research in men as they were simpler.

It’s still not enough for Mermaids. They want no restrictions for transwomen playing against women re weight or height.

The transman who wrote the article also plays against women and appears to have taken testosterone but wants no restrictions for them to play.

They are concerned that restrictions could result in eating disorders or other harmful practices.

mermaidsuk.org.uk/news/response-to-the-rfu-trans-rugby-policy-and-consultation/

'Trans and gender diverse young people should be able to share sporting dreams with their peers without being made to feel ‘othered’ because of the size and shape of their bodies. It’s a real worry that the guidelines could lead to eating disorders and other harmful attempts to try and meet policy requirements. '

Regurgitation of a long standing feminist argument.

Pressure on girls and women to conform to certain body shapes leads to a range of issues- eating disorders, low self esteem etc.

They are utterly shameless

I also note from that piece that the transman plays against women

???

So the women's teams need to accept transwomen on self ID, non binary people (of either sex?), and transmen (but TMAM???).

the male category seems to be the obvious one welcome everyone. It's much more established etc.

There are massive issues with female participation in sport especially during/ after puberty

And again this participation problem is being repurposed for arguments for trans 'inclusiveness'.

It's just awful

Just another example of institutions making something inclusive by excluding women, this time by removing the sex segregation which improves safety and fairness.

I filled in the consultation. I thought of writing a reasonable, evidence-based response citing all the research and thought, Nah, they know all that already. World Rugby has already carefully showed its workings. So I just submitted a rant about how they were putting women's lives at risk, and felt better.

@RoyalCorgi

I filled in the consultation. I thought of writing a reasonable, evidence-based response citing all the research and thought, Nah, they know all that already. World Rugby has already carefully showed its workings. So I just submitted a rant about how they were putting women's lives at risk, and felt better.

I gave them a piece of my mind as well. Who knows what they will do with our feedback, probably nothing but they can't say we didn't tell them.

Me too

In respect of a transgender man/boy who has commenced testosterone or gender re-assignment treatment, the player may no longer be permitted to play women’s or girl’s contact rugby. In such situation, the player must submit an application to the RFU in accordance with this Policy and the Panel will determine what level of assessment is required in order to determine if the player is permitted to continue playing women’s contact rugby.

I mentioned performance enhancing drugs on the cycling thread just now but it occurs to me that it is very relevant here. This paragraph from the proposed policy implies that they will consider allowing people that are taking performance enhancing drugs.

You would hope that any athlete taking performance enhancing drugs would be against the rules for any sport so why would England Rugby even be considering this.

I forgot to mention this in my rant in their consultation so maybe if anyone agrees with my point and hasn't done it yet they could include it on theirs?

Their position on trans men shows how deranged their thinking is. Obviously it would be ridiculous to allow women taking testosterone to play on a women's team because, as IDontOnly states, that would be allowing performing-enhancing drugs.

Equally, it would be INSANE to allow women taking testosterone to play on a men's team because they would be beaten to a pulp at the first outing.

I have no idea how England Rugby can be so stupid as to even contemplate men and women playing contact rugby together. It is one of the maddest things I have ever heard of in my life.

I checked the World Rugby regulations - surprise surprise, exogenous testosterone is on the list of banned substances.

Words cannot express how livid I am at these idiots.

pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2014/11/06/52879e75-53cb-49ce-9133-19bf2a619c9a/120906GFIRBRegulation21FullVersion.pdf

[quote IDontOnlyLikeJazzFunk]I checked the World Rugby regulations - surprise surprise, exogenous testosterone is on the list of banned substances.

Words cannot express how livid I am at these idiots.

pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2014/11/06/52879e75-53cb-49ce-9133-19bf2a619c9a/120906GFIRBRegulation21FullVersion.pdf[/quote]
Well of course it is!

The whole shit show is utterly rage inducing.

Is this being talked about anywhere else does anyone know? I did see one brilliant commentator has managed to quote RFU's frankly deranged definition of a woman as someone who doesn't produce male levels of testosterone under today's Melanie Phillips article in the Times.
Well done

Have the RFU made any comment about why they (or who) devised that spectacularly awful definition?

persistent yes I saw it being discussed on a rugby FB group. Posted uptrend about one man suggesting the women said no.

@Sillyduckseverywhere

Annoyingly some top level female players are all for it. They don't see the issue. Never mind the girls at grassroots that will quit. The girls that don't want to share single sex facilities, the girls that will suffer injuries that could be prevented, the girls that don't make the first team because the trans woman that went through male puberty got in instead.

I got into a Twitter 'discussion' on this subject with a much plaudited England womens International - hiding behind her business handle. She was absolutely vile towards me, demanding to know what I do for grassroots rugby, even attempted to doxx me (@ some other poor random woman). I was utterly stunned. DD and I have attended loads of England women's matches and we'll never look at her in the same light again. She herself is built like a brick outhouse and, who knows, might be able to handle herself against a male bodied player. Poor DD was horrified though. She's already said she won't continue rugby post U18 if the RFU allows males in the women's team.

I got into a Twitter 'discussion' on this subject with a much plaudited England womens International - hiding behind her business handle. She was absolutely vile towards me, demanding to know what I do for grassroots rugby, even attempted to doxx me (@ some other poor random woman). I was utterly stunned

Will she feel the same when she finds herself playing against a team with 3 transwomen in it?

I really can't understand why female sports people support this. I don't get it at all.

What on earth can the thinking be?

I found this from USA which I know was discussed before.

www.womenssportsfoundation.org/press_release/billie-jean-king-megan-rapinoe-and-candace-parker-join-nearly-200-athletes-supporting-trans-youth-participation-in-sports/

They all say

If trans girls (and it seems to focus on girls, not women) can't compete with the girls then that means they are denied access to sport

(??!!)

And

Be kind.

That's it.

I filled it in. Told them I was confident they weren't so stupid as to believe that there was no harm to be done with these policies.

I don't think they are that stupid. I also don't think they don't care.

I filled it out, but I'm such a bloody pessimist about this these days that I feel that yet another woman explaining why she feels it isn't safe for adult xy chromosome owners to play with/against natal women and vice-versa will be thrown on the discard pile. The Stony lot have done another job on them.

DH was aghast and will do the survey.

Suggest anyone who knows men who have played rugby or who are interested ask them to fill it out

They are more likely to listen to them