Rugby - RFU seeking feedback on its transgender policy

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Will go on its website on Wednesday to get public feedback

Panic not, I may have included a hours worth of lecture notes on just that

Good to hear that.

I use the words “male bodied”, so we’re clear on the issue.

Weakened males are not women.

I’ve included comments on reducing testosterone doesn’t reduce speed, strength etc significantly especially if training continues during transition.

I’ve said also, that if they disagree with World Rugby analysis for a local level, and they don’t think there is sufficient evidence to support their approach, women’s rugby should remain for born women unless and until they can show it’s safe for transwomen to play in the women’s game. Maybe they should make the men’s game more inclusive until they can prove it.

I’ve also asked on what basis the assessment would be made. Their approach to this contradicts their approach in making the game safer using science e.g. saliva test, concussion reviews etc

Also used the line, women aren’t small men - that you to the pp for that line. I ended by saying my son loves playing rugby and everything that goes with it but my daughter wouldn’t be playing it until her safety won be compromised by boys playing in girls rugby.

If it was offered that everywhere and everything was made mixed sex it would be rejected; there would be nothing to validate a MTF transitioner as a woman and vice versa. This is evident from the sport issue. No one is stopping any transwoman from playing rugby, but they don’t want to just play rugby, they want to play in the women’s competition.

Oh my goodness @GAHgamel for the autocorrect, teach me to type when getting ready.

This is the link, the interview is on there. (I am presuming it is the one on last night)

www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12261329/transgender-day-of-visibility-finding-an-inclusive-club-as-a-trans-man-and-raising-awareness-of-football-v-transphobia

Female people having incompatible biological needs to males and saying so is not transphobia. Female people having boundaries is not transphobia.

The questionnaire is shocking. The only question it asks is basically ‘what other lovely sounding criteria can you think up for us to use to justify the decision we have already made and won’t be changing’. This is not a consultation by any definition of the word.

@WorkingItOutAsIGo

The questionnaire is shocking. The only question it asks is basically ‘what other lovely sounding criteria can you think up for us to use to justify the decision we have already made and won’t be changing’. This is not a consultation by any definition of the word.

I haven't completed it yet, but I agree that the decision has already been made. I said up-thread but the report last night was very much "this is what will be happening"

@Sophoclesthefox

In rugby, we need to Chesterton’s fence it.

What is women’s rugby for? Why does it exist?

I’m unrelentingly fucking angry about this. There wasn’t any problem deciding what women are when I was playing and we had to make do with second rate facilities, lack of funding, constant derision and undermining.

There wasn’t any question of increasing inclusion when my gay friend was bullied out of the men’s team, while the women’s team was about one third or more lesbian and bisexual players. I don’t imagine that any women have a problem with trans identified or non binary female players on our teams, as long as they’re not using testoerone. I certainly wouldn’t. If the men’s teams do, then let them work more on their inclusion, which has always been donkeys years behind the women.

The blazer brigade fucking women over one more time is no surprise to me. I lived through it before.

This all the way! We have always played second fiddle to the men's game, and it got worse when our governing bodies were merged. World Rugby's analysis made it clear that you could not have fairness to female athletes and safety as well as inclusion in women's rugby. The English RFU are throwing us under a bus.

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

No, its really not up there with birth control.

I’m not going to say my connection with RFU but I definitely have a right to fill in the questionnaire.

The issue may well affect many on this board as (future) parents/partners of players and coaches.

Women should be in the places where decisions are being made. Especially when there is a good chance other sports or organisations may look to RFU for their stance and think it’s the model code of practice.

Can you not see that Disgusted?

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

Really?

Do you think that anyone on this thread is not ‘involved’ in some way? Or is it just meant to make women trying to ensure other women, including future generations and our daughters, are safe, shamed?

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

On the form it asks for your involvement level (e.g. parent, coach, volunteer, player etc) so I guess they can weight them accordingly if they wish.

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

Well, let me reassure you then. I have some association with the RFU. Many here are parents to some players, male and female. Some play, some are gay and play, again male and female. Others are women who value the safety and dignity of women. All sorts of connections abound.

You've made an assumption. Disgusted indeed!

And as you are asked to state that connection, tight at the beginnig of the form, it becomes obvious that you haven't looked at it - which begs the question: Why are you here berating us?

Curious I assumed it was their hobby

As usual the assumption that boring old mummies can’t possibly be interested in orchard involvement with rugby

Or involved with

Or play themselves.

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

Should people who are not female get a say in women's sports/spaces/prisons/language? Should they get to define us? Or should they be prioritised simply because they decide they feel like a women even though they have no idea what it actually is to be a woman?

Even those with no connection now may well be the mothers or grandmother's of future players.

I have not read the thread, or the material that the thread is about, and I certainly don’t have any interest in the topic, but by god I’m going to scold you anyway, you silly little women!

Imagine the idea of fillies being interested in rugger, whatever next!

In other sports - the first woman to referee and English Football League match is appointed. Anyone going to ask Rebecca Welch to cite the offside rule?

Pshaw!

Should people who are not female get a say in women's sports/spaces/prisons/language? Should they get to define us?

I too would like Disgusted’s answer to this.

Should people who do not have the body formed around the potential to produce large gametes, whether or not they do produce large gametes, ever get an opinion on the definition of woman, female, girl? Should they ever have any right to access the protections set up for those people with that body type?

@DisgustedofManchester

The moral question is should people who do not play, watch or have any interest in women's rugby have a say? Its up there with rando blokes getting to decide if a woman can have birth control.

I follow rugby. I have a season ticket for a premiership side, I've travelled extensively to watch with my female rugby buddy. My DP used to play (supports the wrong team though... ) We live and breathe rugby and watch the ladies games. Ladies rugby has exploded in popularity, they are household names, how many other team sports can claim that? Girls can't miss out on this and I want EVERYONE to be angry on their behalf. Most of the men I've spoken to about it think it's an absolutely ridiculous idea and even the smallest back wouldn't want to smash into a lady on the pitch. They acknowledge that they could cause serious harm.