Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

It is not feminist to fancy evil people

140 replies

MaryHappyWin · 24/03/2021 19:39

This is an important feminist point.
It is not feminist to support every evil.
Feminism is not about freeing women to commit evil.
Just as no decent person wants every man to support evil.
It is not feminist to support abuse and violence and bullying.
Feminism is not about people supporting abusers,
It is not feminist to fancy evil people.
I think people who are attracted to evil are evil.
If someone supports evil then they are evil.
I am fed up hearing people boast about their sexual attraction to abusive evil men, as if it is something to be proud of.
People who fancy evil people are so smug about supporting abusive men, as if it is a cheeky fetish. It is not a cheeky fetish. It is supporting evil. It is making evil people win.
You cannot be a good feminist if you attracted to abusers,

bullies, rapists, gangsters, child abusers and domestic abusers.

Abusers are evil and can wreck lives with mental illness and trauma.
It is depraved, warped, twisted, trite, smug, narcissistic and selfish to be attracted to evil people.
I read someone suggest that no one should be shamed for their sexual, preferences. But I disagree with that.
There is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
But people should be ashamed to be sexually attracted to evil people, as in abusers.
Supporting rapists and murderers is on the same level as being sexually attracted to child abuse.
People should be shamed for their sexual preferences if their sexual preferences make them support abusive people, out of a sexual desire for evil people.
Sexual attraction is a powerful emotion. If someone is sexually attracted to evil, then they are fundamentally evil people for finding evil sexually attractive. They are no different to child abusers, or bullies or domestic abusers. If someone supports evil then they are evil.

To fancy someone for doing evil, gives support to that evil person, it humiliates the victim. It makes the evil person win.
It is not brave, or profound or mysterious to support evil abusive people. It is cowardly, weak-minded, cliched, creepy and depraved to fancy people for abusing others.
I think many people stay with wife beaters because they are brought up to see abusive violent men as manly and sexy. That is utterly sick. We need to stop people seeing evil as manly and sexy.
Also films that support rape are evil. Films that glamorize or support rape should be banned. Anyone who supports rape is dangerous.

I remember as a child being driven at by a young man, who was accompanied by two laughing girls, as he tried to run me over.
There are tones of examples of people support their bully doing bullying.
Sexual attraction to evil is not romantic it is weak minded and creepy,
There are people who fancy abusive dangerous men, and still think they can see themselves as the voice of common sense. If you fancy abusive people, then you are motivated to support abuse and punish their victims.

I hope my view does not cause anyone any offence. I am interested to see people's replies. What do you think of my view. Should people be free to support abuse?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:30

Ooh, Spike. My Mum loved Spike

Tell your Mum James Marsters is single again. A boon from me because I foolishly got married.

WhereYouLeftIt · 24/03/2021 20:31

Ah, Spike. Totally rocking the Billy Idol look.

James Marsters turned up in Torchwood, playing Captain John, who seemed to have a past with Captain Jack. I was hopeful that he'd become a permanent cast member, but alas - he didn't.

Ooh and thanks for the info TheBuffster. It is indeed interesting that the popularity of the character forced Wheedon's hand.

JosieJarker · 24/03/2021 20:34

Thanks for jogging my memory, I've been meaning to rewatch.
Angel never did it for me, I know what you mean about zander.
Shame about Joss whedon turning out as he did. Seems like they're everywhere.
Is it unfeminist to watch Buffy?

imalmostthere · 24/03/2021 20:35

@TheBuffster

Spuffy or Bangel? Edward or Jacob? Darcy or Cleaver?
I'm booking a cameo from James For mums 50th birthday, she's a buffy nut too! Very unpopular opinion - I think buffy is terrible with both spike and angel. Angel was pure infatuation and based on one of them being in pain, just so much drama from the start. The emotional speeches every time they saw one another - they're just not a good fit. Spike - he truly loved her, and she absolutely didn't feel the same way. She was lost in herself and he gave her the way back to who she was. I think she used him totally. Buffy and Riley were perfect imo - though I didn't care for Riley really, I think they fit. Angel and Cordy - the relationship we never got, is where I stand 🥺 I cannot explain my love for charisma carpenter and the character arc of cordy. What a show - I loved angel just as much as buffy show wise. Still haunted by the ending though!
TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:37

I shall have to give Torchwood a whirl then.
Yes, Whedon himself is rather problematic in real life and certainly not a boss you'd want to work for. (Backed James into a corner screaming at him for his popularity).

Also James Marsters is in a band so really ticks all the bad boy boxes, despite being known at least professionally as a nice bloke.

SorryAuntLydia · 24/03/2021 20:37

Ok I’ll bite

This is an important feminist point.
A. No it’s not

It is not feminist to support every evil.
A. Who said it was?

Feminism is not about freeing women to commit evil.
A. Who says it is?

Just as no decent person wants every man to support evil.
A. Agreed ... but do you mean any rather than every?

It is not feminist to support abuse and violence and bullying.
A. Who says it is?

Feminism is not about people supporting abusers,
A. Who said it is?

It is not feminist to fancy evil people.
A. Who said it is?

I think people who are attracted to evil are evil.
A. Bit harsh and victim-blamey IMHO

If someone supports evil then they are evil.
A. Ok

I am fed up hearing people boast about their sexual attraction to abusive evil men, as if it is something to be proud of.
A. You need new friends

People who fancy evil people are so smug about supporting abusive men, as if it is a cheeky fetish. It is not a cheeky fetish. It is supporting evil. It is making evil people win.
A. Again, new friends

You cannot be a good feminist if you attracted to abusers,
bullies, rapists, gangsters, child abusers and domestic abusers.
A. We could argue about the nuance between ‘attracted to’ and supportive of but in general I agree

Abusers are evil and can wreck lives with mental illness and trauma.
A. Yes

It is depraved, warped, twisted, trite, smug, narcissistic and selfish to be attracted to evil people.
A. Again, difference between ‘attracted to’ and supportive of

I read someone suggest that no one should be shamed for their sexual, preferences. But I disagree with that.
A. It depends on what it is.

There is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
A. Agreed

But people should be ashamed to be sexually attracted to evil people, as in abusers.
A. Again difference between ‘attracted to’ and supportive of

Supporting rapists and murderers is on the same level as being sexually attracted to child abuse.
A. I don’t like grading and comparing different types of abuse but all those behaviours are abhorrent

People should be shamed for their sexual preferences if their sexual preferences make them support abusive people, out of a sexual desire for evil people.
A. Not convinced shame is helpful in preventing illegal actions

Sexual attraction is a powerful emotion.
A. Agreed

If someone is sexually attracted to evil, then they are fundamentally evil people for finding evil sexually attractive.
A. But but if it’s so powerful, maybe they can’t help it and attraction/supportive difference again.

They are no different to child abusers, or bullies or domestic abusers.
A. Incorrect

If someone supports evil then they are evil.
A. Yes

To fancy someone for doing evil, gives support to that evil person, it humiliates the victim. It makes the evil person win.
A. Fancying someone is not the same as supporting them

It is not brave, or profound or mysterious to support evil abusive people.
A. Ok

It is cowardly, weak-minded, cliched, creepy and depraved to fancy people for abusing others.
A. Fancying is different to supporting

I think many people stay with wife beaters because they are brought up to see abusive violent men as manly and sexy. That is utterly sick.
A. I think you’ll find it’s a lot more complex and again I don’t think it’s helpful to blame the victim.

We need to stop people seeing evil as manly and sexy.
A. Who are these people?

Also films that support rape are evil.
A. Which films?

Films that glamorize or support rape should be banned.
A. Personally I agree

Anyone who supports rape is dangerous.
A. This is FWR I don’t think anyone will disagree with you.

I remember as a child being driven at by a young man, who was accompanied by two laughing girls, as he tried to run me over.
A. That’s a sad story.

There are tones of examples of people support their bully doing bullying.
A. Ok

Sexual attraction to evil is not romantic it is weak minded and creepy,
A. Ok

There are people who fancy abusive dangerous men, and still think they can see themselves as the voice of common sense.
A. Who are you referring to?

If you fancy abusive people, then you are motivated to support abuse and punish their victims.
A. Again, difference between fancying and supporting

I hope my view does not cause anyone any offence.
A. Not offended, just confused

I am interested to see people's replies.
A. I hope you like mine

What do you think of my view.
A. I think you need to tighten your argument and define your terms. Possibly do some research on domestic abuse and why women stay with abusive men.

Should people be free to support abuse?
A. Yes - but they should face consequences for doing so.

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:41

I won't watch the end of Angel because of what they did to Cordy.
I agree neither Spike nor Angel were right for Buffy (she's cookie dough).
I have to disagree with you about Riley as he started off well but treated Buffy awfully for very little reason (hint: he doesn't get to dictate when Buffy says I love you)

That cameo so jealous. Perhaps tell him to swing by mine on the way home. (Only joking, I'd go speechless!)

WhereYouLeftIt · 24/03/2021 20:41

You have way more patience than me, @SorryAuntLydia.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/03/2021 20:44

I have a teddy version of spike

Not a proper teddy, more dog like

This lady nearby used to make them to order and i ordered a spike 😀

He is beautiful

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/03/2021 20:45

In a dog like teddy kinda way

I don’t know why she called them teddys 🤔

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:45

Is it unfeminist to watch Buffy?

Oh that's an interesting question.

lazylinguist · 24/03/2021 20:46

This is the second thread the OP has posted in this vein. Other one here .

OP are you ok? It sounds like maybe you have a bit of a weird personal axe to grind, rather than that you're trying to make a feminist point.

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:47

**I have a teddy version of spike

Not a proper teddy, more dog like**

I'm struggling trying to picture this. Sounds awesome though.

247SylviaPlath · 24/03/2021 20:49

Original post is yawn.

Discussion of Spike is very good. Just finished last ep of Angel last night with my teen having watched Buffy previously. I lept on the 90’s revival phase as an intro to get her into what were my favourite series as a teen. Loving the love for it still. And Spike was her favourite too. I had to explain the concept of charisma to her to help explain why she found him so inexplicably attractive. Grin

SmokedDuck · 24/03/2021 20:52

@TheBuffster

Does someone you know own a Che Guevara t shirt or something?

I googled hot villains and it came up with this list.
www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/delaneystrunk/xx-movie-villains-people-that-people-are-weirdly-a

Which reminded me I missed David Bowie in Labyrinth off my original list.

But they have Kylo Ren first.I think that's problematic. Whiny men are never attractive even if they are villains.
imalmostthere · 24/03/2021 20:55

@TheBuffster
I actually recently started a fan art series called women of sunnydale, in support of charisma when she spoke out about Joss. It's heartbreaking isn't it.
And a very good point about Riley - I didn't like the bloke, but I just felt she fit better with him than anyone else. Thank goodness she didn't end up with Xander in some awful plot twist.

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 20:56

And Spike was her favourite too.
The obvious choice.
"Angel's bloody stupid and his hair goes straight up"

WhoWants2Know · 24/03/2021 20:57

I haven't seen a Mumsnet thread on the subject that even agrees on the existence of evil, let alone whether attraction to "evil" people is anti-feminist.

I'm not saying evil doesn't exist,
but I think life is a little more nuanced than OP makes out.

Like, do you think bad people walk around with signs declaring their nefarious intentions, and women just decide to fall for them anyway because they are bad feminists?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/03/2021 20:59

@TheBuffster

**I have a teddy version of spike

Not a proper teddy, more dog like**

I'm struggling trying to picture this. Sounds awesome though.

Here...she was working off a photo
It is not feminist to fancy evil people
It is not feminist to fancy evil people
TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:00

Ohh can I look that art up? Amazing idea.
Thank goodness she didn't end up with Xander in some awful plot twist.
Sarah Michelle Cellar and Nicholas Brenden pitched this to Joss because they really didn't like the Spike love story. So glad they went with the Spike arc. Xander shirtless just doesn't have the same appeal.

Buffy is great for conversations about consent, relationships and boundaries.

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:01

Owww he's so sweet. His expression says series 6(I love you Buffy, pine).
Or series 3 take me back Dru.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/03/2021 21:03

He is cute

Ive no idea how she managed to source a mini pleather jacket

Sorry OP, i got distracted by the spike love

TeiTetua · 24/03/2021 21:03

Take a look at "Dude watchin' with the Brontes" by the Canadian cartoonist Kate Beaton:
www.harkavagrant.com/index.php?id=202

BoredtoTiers · 24/03/2021 21:04

WTAF? You're attracted to who you're attracted to. I mean, for sure, if you actively pursue abusers or serial killers, seek help.

Fancying a fictional evil in a fictional universe is totally different. Problematic hot is fine as a fantasy - doubt many people want to act it out.

Fancying someone who has done evil in the past? Well maybe it can't be helped. What you can control is whether you act on it. The actual attraction, probably not so much.

TheBuffster · 24/03/2021 21:05

Agree Kylo Ren is not attractive at all. His storyline is kind of messy too.
Young Adult Vader (Anakin) is kind of cute, but I don't like his fall from hero to villain as I think it's rushed.