Is anyone else genuinely fearful that their GC views will become public and they will face disciplinary in their job?

[OhDear2200]

I’ve just had a frantic panic where I stupidly followed a link from my Twitter account to sign up for a professional webinar giving my work email address. It would not take anyone any time to link my GC Twitter views to my work.

Can’t believe how stupid I was!

But it’s crazy. I’m sat here panicking that I could face being sacked or receiving a serious ticking off (publicly) because I want women’s views and voices to be heard.

Now I know it’s unlikely to happen (I’ve deactivated my account) as it would take some effort. And I don’t know if the link to signing up to the Webinar would link it to my Twitter account.

Am I the only one who genuinely is fearful of their views coming out?

Yes. It would be an issue in our workplace. We have a high placing on Stonewall good employers list.

What is the disciplinary issue that applies to registering for a webinar that would lead to dismissal?

It's not the registering for a webinar that could lead to dismissal. The process goes

• Anon Woman on twitter likes and follows a lot of other women with names like Goody TerfWitch #AHF #IStandWithJKRowling, likes and interacts with their posts.

• Anon Woman sees an interesting webinar while browsing twitter and clicks through the link, registering as [email protected]

• She is worried that there is now a direct link showing that Anon Woman on twitter is in fact Josephine Bloggs, team leader at Sanctimonious Company.

• If Sanctimonious learn of this link their social media policy would allow them to take action against her.

OP although the webinar company will keep a record of how many people clicked through from twitter, I don't know of any who would keep a record of exactly who did so. I used to run an event that was publicised on social media and all we had were statistics e.g. 30% of clicks came from twitter, 10% from facebook, etc.

I work in HR, my job is sacking people

And I’m a general counsel at an MNC and my job is giving legal advice to the people sacking people.

And as I set out in my pp it’s not just about “sacking for gross misconduct” there’s plenty of opportunity to get rid of people once their face no longer fits. So I’m calling goady

@DaisyWaldron sums it up.

I’ve not said anything horrific! But for example supported JK Rowling, and others. I’ve posted a few things.

Sigh. It’s the end of my Twitter life. Which is the probably a good thing!!!

@KarmaViolet bingo! You’ve explained it better than me.

Thanks for the reassurance.

So I’m calling goady

Well I will leave you all to your fainting couches then, winding each other up into a terrified silence. Far better that than actually talk about the real level of risk, eh? But as counsel overselling risk is how you make a profit out of fear

I can’t do my job if I’m not registered, just like a Dr for example.

I’m not a Dr. I get paid a lot less

@Scepticaltank actually you’ve reassured me. I do appreciate your views. It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have someone tell you to have a head shake.

Professional bodies don't have responsibility for sacking other companies employees, they are professional bodies. All they can do is pass on a complaint

Some jobs require membership of a professional body - you can't work in your role without that.

I work in the public sector and I keep my GC views to myself for fear of getting into trouble at work.
I have 2 Twitter accounts, one is open to work colleagues and very neutral, my second one is locked down and allows me to debate freely. Is really panic if anyone from work followed me.

To be fair, I would generally keep almost all politics and political views outside of my job. And keep social media very private. That has not much to do with gc views, more to do with privacy and professionalism.

I also expect employees to do same - any sensible employer googles their prospective employees to check to see their social media postings. What I want to see before hiring is a very locked down profile, or if there are posting I want them to be utterly innocuous/unremarkable. I wouldn't not hire on the basis of a political view, but I would be wary of anybody shouting loudly about anything on social media, whatever the issue.

Does maybe depend on the sector/industry you work in.

I assume people in HR are involved in drawing up policies at work including EDI ones.

Given the number of examples posted in here of workplaces where eg the protected characteristics are listed wrongly - gender instead of sex, gender identity instead of gender reassignment or as someone posted the other day suggesting that only neutral pronouns are used even in maternity policies, I think that quite a few people wouldn’t trust HR on this issue

Plus The CIPD which is the professional body for Human Resources is a stonewall champion which doesn’t fill people with confidence they’d get a fair hearing on this issue

@ArabellaScott you’re right and normal this is the case. My social media is completely private and all under false names. This was just a moment of stupidity!!!

[quote PegasusReturns]@Scepticaltank you’re being quite dismissive are you aware of the challenges GC women have faced over the past few years?

People lose their jobs for having unfavourable opinions all the time.

It starts with not getting put forward for interesting projects; failing to get promotion; your bonus not being quite what it was the previous year; people starting to describe you as difficult or awkward.

Then you’re set unreasonable targets; put on a performance plan; written up for minor policy violations that have never been a concern previously; disciplinary for bullying as other feel uncomfortable.

That’s the first way.

Alternatively you get a call from HR and get asked to bring your coat and bag. There’s an envelope with a settlement agreement and you’re asked to go home and think about it over the weekend.

Pretending this doesn’t happen is either woefully naive or you’re being goady.[/quote]
Absolutely Pegasus - it isn't particularly hard to 'manage' someone out of a job. My DH has had to (reluctantly but for good business reasons) do it himself. For various reasons we are very aware of both sides of that part of employment law and having seen first hand the effect of a company having the balance of power/resources to fight a case it is not as simple as Sceptical glibly puts it.

We had an absolutely clear cut situation of blatantly wrongful dismissal (not related to this topic). It still took a lot of balls and a lot of personal risk to challenge it, even with a top quality lawyer friend and a lawyer family member helping us out to win. The company involved employed a very expensive high profile law firm and were prepared to fight us hard. If we had not had support from the friend and family member we would not have risked our house to fight the case.

It consumed us for several months and the threat of that happening is not something to be taken lightly and many people and employers know that.

The 'chilling effect' is real. We have seen many testimonies on here from NHS staff, University lecturers, teachers and other employees who are being silenced because they understand the costs of speaking out in an organisation where the management has signed up to the illogical and unreasonable and unquestioning policies dictated by Stonewall and their acolytes.

Yes.

I work for big tech (v liberal). As context they are big on D&I and at our women's day the conference panel was dominated by a TW who monopolised the panel discussion and at one point literally burst into song. Then we all had to give "her" a big clap for being so stunningly brave. 🙄🙄🙄

My DH is very concerned I will indirectly "lose my job" (ie get my card marked or be disciplined for "hate" speech) for expressing "crazy" beliefs like sex cannot change/XX and XY chromosomes exist and define sex and mutilating your body doesn't change that etc

I am very careful about what I say and to who.

I am being timid I know. But also, through my career I've always had a feeling about what is going to fly or not.

When it's come up in work or outside, and I've trod carefully, everyone I've spoken to has expressed the firm belief that

People can't change sex
Rapists in women's prisons is appalling
Male people who ID as women shouldn't be in female sports
Etc etc

Many of the men have clearly had their female partners clueing them in as well
The other men are just confused and think it's best stayed away from.

The only person I've come across who was total TWAW is a lovely woman who is involved with lots of LGBT + stuff. I knew she would be as she's told me stuff before 'isn't this awful' obviously expecting me to agree because of the sort of person i am. I made non committal noises

But now in the workplace a lot of surveys and stuff are being stonewalled (ask gender not sex, mix sex and gender up, rely on most people just ticking sex etc etc) it's just getting silly.

If I was vocal about it at work it would be inappropriate and I would expect someone to have a word.

And women have lost their jobs over this.

But yes I am a bit feeble.

I do think the tide is turning in the UK though.

To make it very very clear I am not vocal about my views at work at all. And I would absolutely hate the idea of offending anyone, but I find subtle ways of avoiding conversations, not giving my views. I do a lot of ‘goodness I don’t know this was all going on!’

@Scepticaltank

So I’m calling goady

Well I will leave you all to your fainting couches then, winding each other up into a terrified silence. Far better that than actually talk about the real level of risk, eh? But as counsel overselling risk is how you make a profit out of fear

hi Sceptical have you heard of Allison Bailey, Katie Alcock, Sonia Appleby and Maya Forstater?

all are women that have been removed (or serious attempts have been made) from their positions for their beliefs in same sex attraction, safeguarding and women's rights.

It sounds like maybe your organisation hasn't yet been 'Stonewalled' (they claim to have influenced the employers of 1/4 of the UK population) so that is good news for you. I hope you don't come up against the ideology police and have to sacrifice your principles for your continued employment but please don't dismiss the fact that many women (and men) have had to do exactly that.

Yes - I have had just the same fear. I have a professional twitter account which I don't use because of course I can't express my true views there and set up an anonymous one so that I could take part in GC debates. In the end I deleted it because I was just so terrified of there being some way of some techy-type person linking the GC account to me. I wasn't being rude or offensive in the account - simply stating that human beings couldn't change sex etc. I still would have been very damaged professionally if my identity had been revealed.

I don't think it would have effected my main job. Of course, somebody might have made a complaint that it made them feel 'unsafe'. It would all have been very stressful, but they couldn't actually sack me. However, I also hold a second role in professional organisation for my field. It carries a very nice honorarium and carries lots of prestige. It gives me fantastic experience which will be very useful to me in making future steps in my career, and will lead to good opportunities and higher pay. It would be extremely easy to be pushed out of this role my GC views were known as it doesn't come with employment law type protections, and that would be very damaging for me, both professionally and economically.

So, to the impatient HR professional on the thread - I'm afraid I think you are missing a lot of the nuance. It's not just about getting fired. It's quite possible to experience detriment for GC views that fall short of getting the sack.

And to the OP - Yes: I really do understand and feel your pain!!

No. I'm self employed and my customers are sensible people. My other job is farming,animals know what biology is.

I think the majority still believe this is only an issue on twitter and in peoples fertile imaginations; they dont realise how far things have gone in the real world - women have already been arrested, sacked, kicked out of Universities, or had hate incidents placed on their police records.
Not for saying anything hateful or doing anything illegal.

Yes, I''ve been subject to disciplinary process (warning) for GC views being expressed, and a TRA complained. It's in the civil service.
As woke gets.

I can see why you are concerned. Once society goes a certain direction, they view those with differing views quite negatively.

If you are employed within a progressive (or woke depending on your opinion) Company, you have to be very very quiet about your views.

It seems you deleted it on time so I'm sure you will be okay.

If all you've done is use your work email then just deny any knowledge of it. Anyone could use anyone's email address to sign up for stuff and until you click the email link at work and join whatever group there's no proof you did it surely?