Discussions about porn

[Wandawomble]

Have noticed a few things and just want to put them up for thought.

Discussion of porn affecting women and girls often gets shouted down. Why do some women in particular get so protective over it?

Discussion of porn affecting women and girls gets hijacked by sex workers saying it’s their right to do it - I don’t disagree that people can do what they want with their bodies but why can we not talk about the effect that porn has on other women and girls? I think they are two separate issues. How do we talk about both in these kinds of discussions and separate the two issues in a coherent and respectful way?

Ideas and thoughts?

It's just men who want to achieve sexual release but are happy to do it without consent and have no moral reservations

Just about sexual release? Really? I don't mean to derail from your main comment but this is crazy and is not at all what wartime rape is about. It's about control, degradation and ruining the genetic line of that community, because unsurprisingly, rape often leads to babies.

And as the woman's worth in these communities depends on her ability to continue that genetic line, well it's basically game over for her.

The rapists know that. The invading government knows that. That's why they sanction rape as a weapon of war.

It's really not just about sexual release.

I know it wasn't the main point of your argument but to say that is so monumentally inaccurate I just had to point it out.

Spot on lessthan

Johanna I'm really uncomfortable with your recent posts.

You seem to be speculating, musing on a very sensitive topic.

If you want to read about what has been done to women in China/ by Isis you can Google them. I'm not going to write it on here.

I think this argument should be put to one side.

It's a complex sensitive subject and needs nuance.

On the whole I think your view is way too simplistic.

The topic was why do so many people defend it esp women so maybe we should go back to that.

Yeah, back to the topic. Why are women quick to defend it?

Speaking from personal experience, I think there is often a huge desire not to be seen as a prude, to be cool with it.

Also, we are caught in a neo-liberal choice loop. Our society places individual choice and freedom of expression above everything else and therefore arguing that the overall damage caused to society is greater than the principle of individual freedom puts you at risk of being called a "feminazi" which we all know is a terrible slur considering how many millions of innocent men feminism has murdered for their cause.

Yes that's true.

Although I do think in general women care more about stuff that affects women and children than men do, that may be socialisation in part.

Although. If it's a case of not fussed, not really interested, I like it and so that's that. Then the urge to post etc to defend it is a bit odd?

Generally when people just don't care, they avoid talking about it I think? Rather than seeking to read all the stuff saying this is why it's bad etc and then arguing about it.

For the people/ women we're talking about here. It's not just looking the other way. It's deliberately joining discussions and actively defending it. That's a different thing I think.

I think that we're now in a situation where porn is so normalised that women have been conditioned not to think critically about it. Indeed, it's socially stigmatising to speak out about porn, as OP references. On top of this porn has found refuge in the queer theory, freedom of expression, the free for all social movement that we find ourselves in. There can be no shame, no kink too far, no degradation too shameful, I fear that the logical conclusion is that the reality behind liberal individualism will reveal itself in time to have come at the cost of many vulnerable people. Women especially. Because let's be clear, even if the percentage of women consuming porn is as high as 25%, this is a product designed to attract and retain male customers.

But that doesn't explain the ones who join porn threads time and time again to defend it. And tell other women they are naive, prudes etc etc

I had a different view on porn when I was young for sure.

I do think there's a factor there for sure.

I can understand just watching it and well that's that really.

It's the defenders. That I don't get.

I can see why women would watch it.

But the defenders on threads do tell others they are Wrong.

You see this on threads about street harassment and other stuff as well.

Women who don't like it saying why.
Other women not just saying I don't mind it, you you shouldn't mind it either. You're being prudish/ precious etc etc

That is an interesting dynamic.

The ones who are selfish as you mentioned don't agree or disagree probably. Most I expect don't really think about it. Like most non vegetarians don't think about the meat industry, that sort of thing.

Like, war rape may not be that dissimilar from vanilla sex except for it being forced, as opposed to fetish sex

For fuck's sake, you really have some reading to do if you equate war rape with vanilla sex. My grandmother and her daughter (my aunt) were both brutally raped during WW2. War rape is a violent assault, usually resulting in the murder of the victim. I suggest you read what the FRAHP death squad did to female Aristide supporters (and their children) in Haiti. Read the poetry of Warsan Shire. Read A Terrible Revenge by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas.

Anyway... sorry to derail... back to lurking.

That comment was in response to an idea that 'Western decadence' was the reason for this appetite for porn that features (in the mainstream) male sexual domination and debasement of women.

My point was that we have seen these preferences explicitly across the world in times of conflict and also the situation when men effectively 'own' women what they are subjected to in their homes is generally hidden.

I get the sense that sexual domination of women is not a result of porn but giving a lot of men what they want.

I think that would be interesting to explore.

Please unlurk vanguard :)

I totally agree with your post.

I do think it's a separate conversation though.

So all that violent content out there on pornhub.cum including "taxi driver destroys a barely legal teen's areshole

For me it’s the language it’s always that kind of violent dominance and humiliation. I’ve really changed my mind about porn because of the language and the breadth of content that in the main is woman being dominated.

If you don't mind me asking, do you watch porn JohannaC? How does it sit with you?

I think some woman do like the dominance fantasy but probably
More on a manly
Throw you on the bed kind of way rather than destroying your bum or fisting etc etc

Strangely enough, I read an article (dmittedly years ago) that said that the most common female fantasy is 'to be dominated' and the most common male one is 'to please a woman sexually'.

Seriously?! What article, in which publication, when and how long ago? It really doesn't make sense in light of stories like this one:

"A man asked if he could ‘slap’ and ‘spit on me’ – we need to stop normalising sexual violence against women"

www.independent.co.uk/voices/sexual-violence-choking-dating-apps-consent-b1790669.html