Discussions about porn

[Wandawomble]

Have noticed a few things and just want to put them up for thought.

Discussion of porn affecting women and girls often gets shouted down. Why do some women in particular get so protective over it?

Discussion of porn affecting women and girls gets hijacked by sex workers saying it’s their right to do it - I don’t disagree that people can do what they want with their bodies but why can we not talk about the effect that porn has on other women and girls? I think they are two separate issues. How do we talk about both in these kinds of discussions and separate the two issues in a coherent and respectful way?

Ideas and thoughts?

@QuentinWinters

Oh 50 shades again. Because a book written about some entirely fictional characters is exactly the same as watching a real life woman being choked or slapped in porn You are really trotting out the pro porn tropes here. I see you.

Well, no one said that, did they.

I think women do watch a lot less porn, especially regularly, but even so, maybe those who do tend to like that sort of thing - I don't think we can assume not. It's also not difficult to find women who are into BDSM. Clearly there are some not insignificant numbers who might interested in something similar in a visual medium.

That doesn't mean we have to approve of it. I don't think men should watch it, I don't think women should. I don't think women should read 50 Shades of Grey either, though I wouldn't put it anywhere my top ten Things that are Bad.

But if someone wants to know why any women might defend porn, one reason some do is because they like it.

You haven't made any form of valid points. You've made some assertions you can't back up. They suit your point of view and so you cling to them.

The damage porn does affects women and girls whether or not they use porn. Thats the bit we can never discuss.

There's also increasing evidence that porn damages men and boys who use it. Again, we can't discuss it.

Pornhub also publishes contradictory information about the site that raises suspicions. For example it says that 75% of the audience is male and 25% female (other non-pornhub studies suggest the ratio is more like 90% male porn viewers to 10% female). Even if the percentage of women watching porn on pornhub is that high, it wouldn't support pornhubs claim for one year that one of the top three trending searches was "porn for women" - when 75% of users are male. I guess they must just be the kind of men who like to make sure their partners are super happy.

You haven't produced any data johanna. You've linked an article that suggests a subset of porn searches by women (straight only) that excludes most of the porn women search for (lesbian/gay men) includes lots of searches for violence.
There's no data and nothing really to back it up. That's not being data driven

@QuentinWinters

You haven't made any form of valid points. You've made some assertions you can't back up. They suit your point of view and so you cling to them.

The damage porn does affects women and girls whether or not they use porn. Thats the bit we can never discuss.

There's also increasing evidence that porn damages men and boys who use it. Again, we can't discuss it.

Yes, you haven't shown any numbers either, so I think your points here are equally supposition, aren't they?

As for why the larger discussion doesn't happen much, it;s because the basic views in our society around sexual choices, and the market, lead to a way of thinking that has to affirm the validity of pornography both as a commercial and as a sexual choice, for producers/actors as much as for viewers.

To put it another way, the sexual revolution view of healthy sex is almost completely unable to put any boundaries around sexual activity apart from contractual ones.

That's a position that only ever gets limited discussion among feminists on the left because a lot of them are scared/disinclined to criticise the sexual revolution, for fear of where it might lead. Which is what I suggested in my first post.

But the focus on whether some women watch porn, in this context, could be largely defused simply by not worrying about it all that much. It may be true, and that means some women also have ideas that are problematic about porn. It doesn't need to be about pinning blame.

It doesn't matter who watches.
It's consumption of an unethical product.
It doesn't become ethical 'because women do it too'.
Demand doesn't make it ok.

Precisely BlackWave. "[Pornhub] is infested with rape videos. It monetizes child rapes, revenge pornography, spy cam videos of women showering, racist and misogynist content, and footage of women being asphyxiated in plastic bags. A search for “girls under18” (no space) or “14yo” leads in each case to more than 100,000 videos. Most aren’t of children being assaulted, but too many are."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/04/opinion/sunday/pornhub-rape-trafficking.html

Yes blackwave

Yes, you haven't shown any numbers either
Thats because pornhub don't provide them. Follow the link tho and their graphs do not back up the view women watch lots of violent porn.

they're getting annoyed because it makes women look bad women they do.

No, I think your argument deflects from the fact that it's mainly a male driven phenomenon

abused women are more likely to view it. (Violent porn)

That's not what the stats are saying. If the stats are correct - which I'll withhold judgement on since they were commissioned by pornhub - it's still a proportion of the small proportion of women consuming porn. Given there are far more men consuming porn and violent porn remains a popular feature of porn sites like Pornhub, it's not hard to conclude that far more men than women are watching violent porn. That's what's driving it.

Around 50% of women profess to enjoy rough sex.

What?

Porn consumers are mostly male, 29% female according to recent GA.

So it really doesn't add up to say women are twice as likely/ more likely to view derogatory porn than men.

Are 51% of the population really viewing 29% of porn and virtually all of that viewing is derogatory content?