What does CIS mean?

[Babysharkdoodoodood]

I mean really?
I was discussing (ranting) about this with DH today. Trying to explain why I'm a woman and not a cis female.

Then he come out with this beauty (not being nasty): Doesn't it just mean Cunt In Situ?

I was absolutely howling mainly because it's true

It's a way to put actual, real, genuine not pretend ,women down.

'Cis' requires the belief that gender stereotypes are real and innate for the majority of people. 'Cis woman' could just as easily be replaced by 'Stepford wife'.
'Cis' requires women to accept that gender stereotypes are not only real but that they are one, which is why so many women object to it.
It's hilarious that trans activists shout so loudly about 'breaking the binary' while also insisting that cis is a real thing, thereby reinforcing that binary.

@ErrolTheDragon

JustSpeculation - yes, i think straight and cis are applied to other people to chuck them into the 'square' box.

Yes, the terms are absolutely used that way. But that's where the similarity ends. I may not like the term "straight", but there's no denying that's what I am because heterosexuality is a thing in its own right. It's not just being "not gay". I know that because I know what gay is and I can clearly differentiate it from being straight. And the existence of bi people does not in anyway affect the distinction. My problem with "cis", other than when its being used to put people down, is that it is only defined in opposition to "trans", and doesn't seem to refer to any intelligible condition of its own.

other genders in other cultures, such as the Tahitian/Native Hawaiian māhū

Hawaiians have an old local word for what some modern westerners would now call transgender. OK. So what?

Here's another random statement about ancient words and traditions:

Some Egyptian language refers to slave-like people as 'sqrw-anx', meaning “bound for life” Forms of forced labor and servitude are seen throughout all of ancient Egypt even though it wasn't specifically declared as the well known term we have today, slavery.

What does any of that tell anybody about anything they didn't already know?

Effeminate men have existed throughout history; some cultures have a special word for them.

Enslaved people have existed throughout history; some cultures have a special word for them.

It's a word that you may use or have forcibly assigned to you that assumes everyone is a believer in a specific political viewpoint. It assumes that everyone has a gender identity and is in unconditional agreement with this. It assumes that you agree with and comply with gender stereotypes and their restrictions and limitations upon you. And it assumes that you accept and support a narrative in which you agree that you have privilege which means you should subordinate yourself and your needs to others without protest or question.

I'm atheist on this political belief.

I believe that either it's wrong to ascribe people labels and use language towards them that they do not identify with, choose, and consciously reject - or it isn't. It can't be ok for some but not others.

I believe that either we show kindness, respect and acceptance of all identities and self definitions, or we don't. It can't be for some but not others.

And I believe that compelled belief, compelled association with a political belief, and intolerance of others who do not share your personal belief system, is not a positive or acceptable thing.

Because someone being cis is generally assumed unless otherwise stated. Well, outside of trans spaces.

And maybe that is your problem right there. You narrowly believe that outside of ‘trans spaces’ people can be labeled as something because you and others arbitrarily have labeled them yourselves.

Yet, when people tell you they are not this newly made up label that is poorly defined because gender identity is poorly defined, they are not to be believed.

That seems hypocritical to me, but I could be convinced that I am wrong. So far, not convinced though.

Essentially it just means you are not trans. It's a completely innofensive technical term that facilitates conversations which include both trans and cis people.

The people who object to it claim they don't need a prefix - they are just "normal", but interestingly, they never object to terms like "heterosexual", "straight", allosexual or "neurotypical" which form exactly the function in English.

Essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps trans people. It's transphobia - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

@Shizuku

Essentially it just means you are not trans. It's a completely innofensive technical term that facilitates conversations which include both trans and cis people.

The people who object to it claim they don't need a prefix - they are just "normal", but interestingly, they never object to terms like "heterosexual", "straight", allosexual or "neurotypical" which form exactly the function in English.

Essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps trans people. It's transphobia - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

It doesn't essentially just mean that though It's a very offensive term

Oh, well, the anime meme has definitely convinced me. Trumps any other argument, obvs.

such as the Tahitian/Native Hawaiian māhū
I see we've got the usual cultural appropriation itt, decontextualizing other cultures societal roles and applying modern ideologies to systems of behaviour that developed as a result of unique pressures, and thereby dehumanizing and further marginalising people oppressed by related modern ideologies
Not very intersectional hmm?
Just yet more fetishizing and a lack of intellectual rigour

@Helleofabore

That seems hypocritical to me, but I could be convinced that I am wrong.

Yes. Me too. What I think I would need to be convinced is some way of distinguishing between males, for example, who are playing the role of being women and males who actually are women. But I can't find a concept of gender which allows that. The concept is too indistinct to be firmly grasped. The closest it gets to it seems to be an implicit claim that "playing the role" and "actually being" are either same thing, or meaningless concepts in themselves. I can't accept that because the world is more material than that sort of idealism.

It is one of a binary option that women are given to choose from when defining themselves.

Under the NewThink system If a woman does not identify as "cis" she, by default, is identified as a "TERF".

This is rather like the scene in the film "I am Not a Witch" in which the terrified little girl falsely accused of witchcraft is given the option of not identifying as a witch, in which case she must confess to being a goat and will thus be at risk of being butchered.

I see we've got the usual cultural appropriation itt

To be fair that was an example of being neither trans nor cis, as they don't perscribe (subscribe?) to this "Western culture".

They were generously acknowledging that they can opt out.

Well, guess what, we also opt out as we do not subscribe to this "Western culture" of "gender" you're trying to impose on us. Okay?

Or are you going to force us to accept your culture?

Essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps trans people. It's transphobia - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

When a man says he's a trans woman, rather than a man, essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps women. It's misogyny - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "man" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

If this post is deleted, but yours is allowed to stand, it will be very interesting. I'm prepared to go for it.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

That's your problem.

So if Rachel Dolezal had called herself a transAfrican American it would have been OK?

Take it to its logical end point. Black people are then told that they have to refer to themselves as cis-Black and get browbeaten when they resist.

@Shizuku

Essentially it just means you are not trans. It's a completely innofensive technical term that facilitates conversations which include both trans and cis people.

The people who object to it claim they don't need a prefix - they are just "normal", but interestingly, they never object to terms like "heterosexual", "straight", allosexual or "neurotypical" which form exactly the function in English.

Essentially, it's just an objection to a word that helps trans people. It's transphobia - pure and simple.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

OK, I'm going to be brave and risk it. That is a bit like saying that the term "lizard people from Venus" is a term which facilitates conversations with people who believe in them. Which is absolutely true, but still says nothing about what the term actually means and whether it makes sense or not. The difference is that I scoff at the idea of lizard people, but I am still, genuinely, open to being convinced on "cis".

And there are plenty of examples of the term being used to denigrate. You don't even have to go to twitter for them.

Shizuku, can you talk me through the logic in that cartoon?
Why does thinking 'cis' is a slur necessarily require thinking that 'trans' is a slur?

I genuinely don't ever use trans as a slur. However, for the reasons outlined above, I believe cis is poorly defined and used as a slur.

So, unless you think I am lying, I have proved that your meme is false in at least one case. If you care about not using slurs, you should stop using false premises to argue against this.

And secondly, I see you have essentially called my trans friend a liar, as they have asserted that cis doesn't mean 'not trans' but 'having a gender that matches one's sex'. Can you provide more information as to why you are correct and my friend is wrong?

Males appropriating the word 'woman' is way beyond 'offensive'.
'Woman' isn't an identity or a feeling. There are trans people who know this, of course, they and their rights are also being negated by the anti-realist rhetoric.

By the way shizuku, please can you reply to my question from yesterday about 'gender matching sex', as I think it's highly relevant to defining 'cis'?
I'll repost it here.

You used the term "Having a gender identity that doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth."

Please could you set out clearly which gender identity matches with which sex?
Otherwise it's a bit like saying they have a fruit that doesn't match their vegetable - what are the paired sets of gender identity and sex?
Surely you're not saying a feminine gender identity matches a female sex and a masculine gender identity matches a male sex?

Or are you saying gender identity and sex are the same thing?

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

In other words, "I am what I say I am. You are what I say you are."
If you genuinely believe that people's internal beliefs about their own gender should be respected, then you need to stop insisting other people use labels they don't identify with.

Objections to the word "cis" are way more offensive than the word itself could ever be.

And the continuous denial that people reject an ill-defined label because they actually don't fit the label becomes very apparent.

So, on one hand, we are told to believe people are who they believe they are. At the same time, we correspondingly stay in the box they have just made for us with the label they created on it even though we don't actually fit the box or the label. Because that term has only recently repurposed.

By those now in the box with the label staying put, it allows those who have redefined themselves to fit their own description of reality, that may or may not reflect material reality (I stress that many trans people do view themselves in a way that accepts the reality of their sex). And to ignore that the label and the box relies on a description of 'trans' that is ever growing and ever increasingly ambiguous.

It also ignores that many, many of the posters on these feminist boards would actually fit into that loose group of trans as it stands now.

This fact is ignored by so many posters who come with the aim of educating us.

Cis- and trans- meaning this side of/ the other side of only works when speaker and listener are both in the same place; cis-alpine or trans-atlantic depend entirely as concepts on where you are in relation to the Alps, or the Atlantic.

Someone once tried to convince me that Cisatlantic was a phrase in common usage

It facilitates the claim that cis people are privileged over trans.

We are.

In what sense?

I don't need you to agree with me. I don't need to agree with you either, it's fine to see things differently.

But if you want me to respect that some people need me to use words and language for them that I don't personally agree with, because using language and words that people choose and feel appropriate for their sense of self and well being matters -

then you need to extend those same values and that same respect to me too.

That's the social contract. End of.