Jordan Peterson

[Wilsonwilson]

What do people make of him? Watched the triggernometry interview with him yesterday. I have previously seen bits and bobs of his but not taken much notice. In the interview he pointed out that out that his greatest criticism has been because he was lecturing people whilst being a benzo addict, tbh this was my criticism.

I don't know, to me he just seems disingenuous somehow, could be my bias like he says.

Heard his Cambridge Union talk about climate change recently, when he said it doesn't matter anyway because 'none of us are going to do a damn thing about it. You're not going to give up your car or your mobile phone'.....

True and true.

He talks a lot of common sense.

@MuggleStudiesResearchProject

Seems like the Jordan Peterson bots have been attracted to the thread and no matter what is said against him it will be dismissed. Anyone who is interested/of healthy skepticism can spend time reading around these issues, reading multiple viewpoints, and come to their own conclusion, as is your right. The feminism boards do seem a bizarre place for this exultation though.

But I'm bloody short on time, so reading around is time I dont have. Give me the links to what it is you think I should read and I will. I simply dont have the hours to search and find and read hundreds of articles to find whatever point your making.

And having said all of that, does JP posit himself as God? Because if he does then you've got a point how dare he speak for us all the loon, if he doesn't think he's God, then cant we all just take what we need from his stuff and ignore the rest. I dont think every word he utters is profound, but I think he talks sense, especially in the get your own house in order before fixing anything else.

As we're on the subject of JP interview with Abigail Shrier, out this evening, is worth watching, IMO. JP at his best.

Excellent post, floof.

@LibertyMole

Excellent post, floof.

Why thank you kindly.

@waltzingparrot "none of us are going to do a damn thing about it" - except all the people who work in the green energy and innovation industries who are doing loads and we as consumers are increasingly switching to electric cars and plant based diets. And even more behaviour change to come as the choice of consumer products change. And the governments changing policies to help the green industries along... 🙄

MaMaLa321 I'm watching it right now. It's a really good discussion.

What I like is that they both take time to unpick it. An hour and a half is a long interview to watch, but I believe it repays the effort.

And having said all of that, does JP posit himself as God? Because if he does then you've got a point how dare he speak for us all the loon, if he doesn't think he's God, then cant we all just take what we need from his stuff and ignore the rest. I dont think every word he utters is profound, but I think he talks sense, especially in the get your own house in order before fixing anything else.
This says it.

I don't know JP as well as many on here, but I do come away with a big "so what you're saying is..." vibe from the critics.

He proposes self-help techniques in self-help books, which seems appropriate. People who've found that work helped them aren't going to care what his politics are, so arguing with them about his politics gets no-one anywhere.

And anyway, I don't see him dragging the self-help stuff into the political sphere like a stereotypical "own bootstraps" conservative. The political stuff he focuses on is freedom of speech, liberalism, etc.

Which we damned well need everyone on board talking about now. (Or indeed 4-5 years ago when he became famous for opposing Canada's C-16).

@BilboBercow

He's not an ally. There's a reason his writings and words attract MRAs, incels etc. He thinks women should know their place.

That's how I see him - didn't he write that we women would be happier if we'd just accept our womanly role in life? I didn't know about his addiction so that didn't colour my view of him.

if either of you could actually point to where he says that, in so many words, I'd be delighted to see it. I'm sure you have read an article where somebody else says that he says that. But it's not the same thing.
As with muggles accusation of antisemitism.

And what the heck is it with everybody having to be 'allies'. Let's all grow up, shall we?

Ah the video up ^ there a few posts, my God I've watched 10 minutes and its very very good.
I will try to watch more later.

There's loads out there on Cultural Marxism being an antisemitic conspiracy theory @Mamala321, if you were bothered enough to look. Other posters have also referred to it. But, you just keep mentioning it as if it's just me making up some wild fantasy

jewishcurrents.org/the-lethal-antisemitism-of-cultural-marxism/

And this is long but detailed www.dailykos.com/story/2019/1/23/1828527/-How-the-cultural-Marxism-hoax-began-and-why-it-s-spreading-into-the-mainstream

Yes, but there are also many sources that say that it isn't. So there we are.
I think chasing after secondary sources is a rabbit hole that can go on forever, and is pointless. Rather than go on what other people say (which is what you are doing) I think it makes more sense (and is more honest) to go on what he actually says. (we you don't seem to be able to engage with).

I do like the way that the linked "Daily Kos" piece bit on Peterson is basically entirely a "so what you're saying is..." directly stating he generally doesn't use the term. I think my earlier characterisation is holding up.

Right-wing pop philosopher Jordan Peterson, the Toronto-based lecturer whose book 12 Rules for Life is a nonfiction bestseller, has built much of his reputation as an enemy of multiculturalism and “cultural Marxism,” though he rarely uses the latter phrase, other than in mostly secondary contexts. Peterson prefers instead to attack “postmodernism” as the final outcome of misbegotten academic thinking: “Postmodernism, in many ways, especially as it’s played out politically, is the new skin that the old Marxism now inhabits,” he says in a video titled “Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism.”

In 12 Rules for Life, Peterson explicitly links postmodernism with the Frankfurt School. He also shared the Daily Caller piece describing cultural Marxism as killing America on his Facebook page.

I don't really see what the "conspiracy theory"/"hoax" is supposed to be. Clearly wokism/postmodernism/critical social justice/cultural marxism/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is totally getting out of control, particularly in the US. What exactly are you disputing?

Just the name "cultural marxism"? It's not a very much used term, as far as I can tell, and as the article says, Peterson doesn't use it.

Some background reading here: newdiscourses.com/tftw-cultural-marxism/

So from what I can gather, there is an anti-semitic conspiracy theory on the right based around "cultural marxism", but the same term is also sometime used more accurately to describe a real phenomenon, which Peterson talks about without using the term "cultural marxism", which makes him an anti-semitic conspiracy theorist.

‘...has built much of his reputation as an enemy of multiculturalism and “cultural Marxism,” though he rarely uses the latter phrase, other than in mostly secondary contexts.’

How can you build a reputation on attacking something that you hardly ever mention?

This is just mud slinging. Is this the next move? Anyone who disagrees with postmodernism hates the Jews?

[quote MuggleStudiesResearchProject]There's loads out there on Cultural Marxism being an antisemitic conspiracy theory @Mamala321, if you were bothered enough to look. Other posters have also referred to it. But, you just keep mentioning it as if it's just me making up some wild fantasy

jewishcurrents.org/the-lethal-antisemitism-of-cultural-marxism/

And this is long but detailed www.dailykos.com/story/2019/1/23/1828527/-How-the-cultural-Marxism-hoax-began-and-why-it-s-spreading-into-the-mainstream[/quote]
Well I dont know about the others who asked, but I meant where explicitly does jordan Peterson say what you tell me he said.

Not interested in what someone else thinks he said, that's just hearsay.
So a video or podcast or something actually written by JP saying whatever it was.

Finally finished the video linked to up thread. Very good. I like it and just for the record JP says nothing controversial in it, no Marxist was hurt in the making of.

I think this is where Peterson talks about cultural rot. I mean, yeah, he is light on evidence, heavy on rhetoric. Uses violent metaphors. Sounds a bit mad.

Is there a point in this video when this happens?

I have watched the first 15 mins and everything he has said so far is true, and reflects the experiences of myself and my family from the last hundred years.

I can’t say 100% that he is correct about Derrida because I don’t about Derrida in much detail.

I am not sure how he is supposed to back it up with evidence in a conversation. Get out history books showing that tens of millions of people were killed by Stalin, and many more killed as a consequence of the Four Pests? Surely it is uncontroversial that these are the events?

Jordan Peterson lead me to Carl Jung. This is where he gets all his masculine and feminine archetype stuff from.

There is a podcast called This Jungian Life and it has been such a fulfilling experience listening to it. Carl Jung's masculine/feminine archetypes are so interesting from a feminist perspective, so so interesting. And I feel despite my rad fem history, I embrace them completely and feel like feminism has missed opportunities in acknowledging things like the mother role and the power of femininity. I'd recommend that podcast to really go beyond what Peterson posits with his masculine / feminine stance - he really only touches the surface of it and it is so very powerful.

One of the hosts of the podcast is Lisa Marciano and she works outside of the podcast doing work around trans issues and the whole erasure of women / denial of biology. A lot of her stuff has been published in Quillette and this article gives a flavour - such interesting stuff about the power of the victim status when it comes to 'trans rights'. And totally TERFy.

quillette.com/2017/12/27/collision-reality-depth-psychology-can-tell-us-victimhood-culture/

The podcast is here and really is one of the best podcasts I have ever listened to - much better than Petersons even though he brought me there!

thisjungianlife.com/

Peterson to me is a bringer of ideas which are always worth a follow up - Jung, Nietzshe are the best cases of that. He has brought me to new ideas - guess he is a populist in that sense and why he brings a lot of criticism - a lot of what he says is a summary of other work and seems surface level

I am not a fan of the hypocrisy of Jordan Peterson.
He puts forward this idea that women only find strong perfect men attractive. He gave out this image that he was the perfect man, that was attractive to women. That he was the perfect role model.
Then it turns out he has deep serious mental health issues, but despite that had children and was married. He is a hypocrite.

I am now thirty minutes into this video and he has touched on something I was wondering about.

Given the massive expansion of academia, why are there not loads of Jordan Peterson’s around? By which I mean, why aren’t there many academics drawing upon philosophy, psychology, literature etc to tell us how to live a meaningful and satisfying life?

Peterson is pointing out that for postmodernists, that isn’t the purpose of education.

@MaryHappyWin

I am not a fan of the hypocrisy of Jordan Peterson. He puts forward this idea that women only find strong perfect men attractive. He gave out this image that he was the perfect man, that was attractive to women. That he was the perfect role model. Then it turns out he has deep serious mental health issues, but despite that had children and was married. He is a hypocrite.

I think that is very unfair.

He never posited himself as a hero saviour, he was just someone sharing psychological knowledge and he seems extremely surprised it helped people. He was then catapulted into fame which brought it's critics (and a lot of them in his case), his wife who he has been with since childhood got a terminal disease. He has always been open about suffering from bouts of depression.

I find the criticism that he became ill really distasteful.