--protect your daughter--, educate your son"

[satishoused]

I've seen this around a lot in light of awful recent events. But I am interested in what it actually means.

I have been with my husband for 20 years and he has never laid a finger on me in anger. But I am also 100% sure that when his parents were bringing him up, they never said to him "don't rape/hit/be violent towards women". It just would not have been an explicit conversation. He was raised to be a good person with similar values to how I was raised and how we are raising our children.

I'm just interested as a mother of two boys, and someone who is aware that we do live in a deeply misogynistic world, as to what this sort of "education" looks and sounds like.

The thread title is meant to show protect your daughter as crossed out like I've seen it on graffiti in memes etc recently

It means, instead of shrugging off behaviours as “boys will be boys” you correct it instead

You don’t teach them that if a girl isn’t interested “try again as she’s playing hard to get”. You teach them to leave her alone

I’ve got a 12yo dd. I spent a chunk of yesterday morning explaining what ‘everyone’s invited’ is and showing her some of the posts on my phone. Prompted because her school had done an assembly on it, which she hadn’t understood as I don’t allow social media on her phone. We talked about consent, different situations, what some of the words meant, why some of the behaviour might be happening, what to do if she saw any behaviour like this. I would hope mums of boys are doing the same.

These issues come up quite often, this was just that most recent one. Before that, we had a similar discussion about flashing, prompted by three women / girls being flashed locally on the same day.

I think it also includes talking about sexism generally, not just sexual harassment, so that boys don't think that girls and women are lesser beings.

sonshinemagazine.com/magazine/teaching-small-children-about-consent

Sonshine magazine is really good. Worth a subscribe.

If we don't think of ourselves as lesser beings they won't see us as lesser beings.

I think it's making then aware of unconscious bias, the micro aggressions, the sex based assumptions, not raising a cocklodger or s man who thinks his only role had to be that of 'provider', the treatment of women will only change when society as a whole views then as equal that starts in childhood, it's also about what you model in the home, I work full time, DH and I share chores and childcare, wife work isn't a thing here, if DH even edges towards anything line that the response will be oh sorry I didn't realise having a penis made you incapable of x. It's not highlighting how pretty good female cousin is and how strong his male cousin is and challenging it when others do. It's raising our sons to recognise women as intelligent, capable, worthwhile, ambitious, strong individuals, not recepticles for babies their fathers then do much less to raise, whilst expecting their female partners to play second fiddle to their much more important male lives. Crikey there are hundreds of examples on here everyday, raise a bit in a home where mum is of less value than dad (daddy's job is important, mummy does the cooking and cleaning) and you're teaching him that men are more valuable than women and essentially building in a base level of misogyny regardless of how 'lovely and kind' (statement I'm seeing everywhere at the moment) they are.

It allowing girls to grow up fierce and confident, curious, bold, self expressive, physically strong and free, unconcerned about their clothing and appearance and it's about curbing toxic behaviour in boys, not allowing them.to be destructive or aggressive (boys will be boys), encouraging them to express softness, empathy, to help around the home, to respect their sisters and mothers, to understand and respect that women bring boys into this world, to help boys understand that the role of boys and men is to defer to girls and women, to be guided by them, and to use their greater physical strength to serve the household, and that serving does not emasculate them- it is their true purpose and will make them fulfilled and happy.

@chocolatesweets

If we don't think of ourselves as lesser beings they won't see us as lesser beings.

I really don’t think it works like that.

Optimistic! I don’t think of myself as a lesser being far from it but have had a shed load of street harassment from male creeps over the years.

@KingdomScrolls

I think it's making then aware of unconscious bias, the micro aggressions, the sex based assumptions, not raising a cocklodger or s man who thinks his only role had to be that of 'provider', the treatment of women will only change when society as a whole views then as equal that starts in childhood, it's also about what you model in the home, I work full time, DH and I share chores and childcare, wife work isn't a thing here, if DH even edges towards anything line that the response will be oh sorry I didn't realise having a penis made you incapable of x. It's not highlighting how pretty good female cousin is and how strong his male cousin is and challenging it when others do. It's raising our sons to recognise women as intelligent, capable, worthwhile, ambitious, strong individuals, not recepticles for babies their fathers then do much less to raise, whilst expecting their female partners to play second fiddle to their much more important male lives. Crikey there are hundreds of examples on here everyday, raise a bit in a home where mum is of less value than dad (daddy's job is important, mummy does the cooking and cleaning) and you're teaching him that men are more valuable than women and essentially building in a base level of misogyny regardless of how 'lovely and kind' (statement I'm seeing everywhere at the moment) they are.

This

@chocolatesweets Completely agree. I cannot stand the victim culture that some on here are so keen to perpetuate.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4189208-Daniel-Sloss-Everyday-Women-Are-Trying-Their-Hardest-To-Not-Get-Raped

Great Clip hhere

Teach your sons to call out the small stuff is the premise.

I want a man to open doors for me. I don't want to be a strong independent woman. I feel more sensitive than my husband. He is much more logical than me. We both have our strong points.

We both work full time. I love working because I find being with young kids on my own all day hard work. I love adult conversation and listening to my own thoughts. My husband cooks and cleans equally.

It's about pleasing yourself not making other people behave in a way you deem acceptable. You be the way YOU want to be and you'll attract a suitable man.

I feel so sad for what happened to Sarah and I'm not blaming her (before this is shouted at me). She was a victim of a horrible crime and it's really sad.

Nonsense. I am far from a victim very loving upbringing marvellous men in my life but I have repeatedly had men shout things too vile to type at me whilst going about my life as a young woman,

Well I work FT and am the main breadwinner, my husband actually does the majority of childcare and housework BUT His mum was a SAHM and still managed to raise a son who doesn't think of domestic work as women's work.

@Borka

I think it also includes talking about sexism generally, not just sexual harassment, so that boys don't think that girls and women are lesser beings.

But also being careful not to let it go the other way so that boys feel hard done by and we create MRAs.,

I have talked to my son about when he's older and has a career, and wants a family re how one person may need to pause to look after a child. (This was in the context of his disbelief over our toddler's nursery fees and why school was free!) There are many ways to get them to think about respecting other's needs and choices.

This was something a friend pointed out isn't discussed in secondary. Her daughters are planning careers. My friend was completely done over by abusive exh as she became a sahm and then lost 12 years of a career.

I also think it's important to teach kids not to put up with friends who don't actually treat them very well. To stand up and say they don't like something, draw boundaries etc. And I've had to do that with my son too who isn't v good at saying no I don't want to play that. But especially girls. High standards for how they're treated.

@Justanotherworkingmom agree with you.

I think for the most part op, if boys are raised in a home where females are respected and treated equally then that is normal behaviour for them.

Of course there will always be men who are horrible human beings regardless of upbringing or those that have disgusting friends whose misogynistic attitudes they share.

And whilst it's no excuse, pornography, drug taking and alcohol is often in the mix.

It’s to counter the blame being placed on women for daring to go out after dark or wear the “wrong” clothes isn’t it?

I have a son, and I hope, like most do, he will grow up not only to respect everyone but to understand that things like walking behind a woman after dark can make her feel uncomfy. Also to speak up if males are making inappropriate comments.

Women alone can’t change the culture we live in. It’s got to be a team effort to do it.

In the playground at dds primary the boys chase the girls, in packs/groups. My dd is scared, so she runs and this is translated as a ‘fun’ game by the teachers watching who just roll their eyes jovially at the boys.

I have told her to stand still and say ‘No’ instead of run but she thinks she will be hurt. So I don’t think it’s just parents - this inequality starts in school too where boys are encouraged to burn off energy by doing whatever they like and there are no consequences.

I also asked ds yesterday who he expected to do the washing up when he's grown up. As he wasn't keen on loading the dishwasher. Due to dirty dishes.

Then he thoroughly enjoyed washing up properly with gloves.

(Dh loads the dishwasher here I unload. Apparently I don't do it properly...)

It's the little things...,

[quote Justanotherworkingmom]@chocolatesweets Completely agree. I cannot stand the victim culture that some on here are so keen to perpetuate.[/quote]
Can you show me where on this thread you’re seeing ‘victim culture’?

Or are you just reacting to the argument that men and boys need to change, rather than women? I personally think that they are capable of it, if they chose, but perhaps you think that’s not true?

@AgnesNaismith

In the playground at dds primary the boys chase the girls, in packs/groups. My dd is scared, so she runs and this is translated as a ‘fun’ game by the teachers watching who just roll their eyes jovially at the boys.

I have told her to stand still and say ‘No’ instead of run but she thinks she will be hurt. So I don’t think it’s just parents - this inequality starts in school too where boys are encouraged to burn off energy by doing whatever they like and there are no consequences.

That's disgraceful.

Yes schools need to Buck up and recognise this. It really does start there.

Ironically it's the girls doing the chasing in ds's class! But they're all a really lovely cohort. I'd love to teach them.