The cognitive dissonance from 'TWAW' women

[CheeryTreeBlossom]

I've seen a few things today on social media which got me thinking: How do "liberal" feminists square up the argument that being a women is a feeling vs the experience we all know?

1. The awful disappearance of Sarah Everard has led to an outpouring on twitter of women highlighting how they are essentially bound by a curfew all the time (and not just when the police "helpfully suggest" it) and feel the fear of being followed/harassed/assaulted by men in public constantly.

2. Kamala Harris posted a video on Instagram about the 2.5million women how have left the workforce in the US (similar stats on Guardian about the UK) and it's driven by women being in lower paid work and not having access to childcare when schools close.

3. This scene from Fleabag appeared on my Facebook feed where Kristin Scott Thomas gives a powerful speech about how women are constantly affected by their bodies through the start of menstruation to menopause. Lots of positive articles from the time it aired:
   www.refinery29.com/en-gb/fleabag-season-2-episode-3

And yet these same women would call others bigots for saying biology matters and instead that feelings are more important to being a woman than anything else?
That to dislike finding myself in an enclosed public space with someone visibly male is phobic, and that our reproductively system has a huge impact in our lives and why women are still discriminated against?

Argh. I'm just sick of being the only one in my friends group that seems to see the hypocrisy.
They say JKR is a nasty transphobe but equally complain about the patriarchy and how childcare costs put women put of work

If you go on to the FB page Women Against Hate today you will see that cognitive dissonance writ large. Scores of women arguing that you just need to ‘be kind’ to ‘our trans sisters’. It’s all about being born in the wrong body, being the most vulnerable group in society, blah blah blah ...

If you go on to the FB page Women Against Hate today you will see that cognitive dissonance writ large. Scores of women arguing that you just need to ‘be kind’ to ‘our trans sisters’. It’s all about being born in the wrong body, being the most vulnerable group in society, blah blah blah ...

Yes, I follow that page and every so often swathes of woke people leave in disgust because at least two of the admins, including the page owner are GC feminists. It's quite funny to watch them fail to compute that a left wing page for women could possibly centre women

But as other PP have said, it's far more likely that these people being raised as males than the fact they have a penis is responsible for their crime

Don't think that quite computes as transwomen, who rebel against their socialusation as males, are still just as likely to be violent/ sex offenders as any other male person.

@334bu

*But as other PP have said, it's far more likely that these people being raised as males than the fact they have a penis is responsible for their crime*

Don't think that quite computes as transwomen, who rebel against their socialusation as males, are still just as likely to be violent/ sex offenders as any other male person.

Yes...but it's a social upbringing. Not biology.

@HopeClearwater

If you go on to the FB page Women Against Hate today you will see that cognitive dissonance writ large. Scores of women arguing that you just need to ‘be kind’ to ‘our trans sisters’. It’s all about being born in the wrong body, being the most vulnerable group in society, blah blah blah ...

What's wrong with saying those things?

What's wrong with saying those things?

You can't be born in the wrong body, you are born in your own body

Transwomen are not the most vulnerable group in our society

Be Kind is a social constraint women can well do without!

But as other PP have said, it's far more likely that these people being raised as males than the fact they have a penis is responsible for their crimes.

We need to remember that there are some different groups here though. Apart from the very recent trend for quite small children to be raised as a member of the opposite sex by their parents, the vast majority of people reach adulthood or thereabouts before presenting as the opposite sex. Therefore they are fully socialised in their formative years in their birth sex.

Even when we consider how the very early transitioned children are treated, I can't believe that the parents are actually treating them fully as a member of the opposite sex. I think at an unconscious level they will still be treating them as their birth sex, or at the very least treating them differently because they are trans. The parents of 'transgirls' on here are definitely not treating them as other girls are typically treated, even within the same family.

Many tw are very late transitioners and have spent 40 or 50 years being exclusively socialised as male and that is obvious on interactions with them.

Many trans people, as we have seen demonstrated perfectly by the Eddie Izzard situation, may have changed their presentation and pronouns but are still not treated a way that is remotely resembling how women are treated.

Imo trans people (particularly tw) do not acquire any meaningful socialisation that relates to their acquired sex presentation. Therefore I don't see how you can argue that socialisation or behaviour are in any way translated to the opposite sex on transition.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

What's wrong with saying those things?

You can't be born in the wrong body, you are born in your own body

Transwomen are not the most vulnerable group in our society

Be Kind is a social constraint women can well do without!

Those are your opinions.

What is wrong with people saying those things?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

What's wrong with saying those things?

You can't be born in the wrong body, you are born in your own body

Transwomen are not the most vulnerable group in our society

Be Kind is a social constraint women can well do without!

absolutely correct.

No one is born in the wrong body - even Mermaids and Stonewall have stopped making that claim.

All the evidence shows that tw are certainly not the most vulnerable group in our society by a long way and a noteable number of individuals have actually increased the danger to women by their actions.

Be kind is what has got us to where we are now! Arguing about what a woman is and having our single sex spaces and protections undermined.

Oh come on garden.

Be kind came from the suicide of a young woman.

And I can guarantee the majority of MN posters peddled it at the time.

I wonder, would you tell someone with a disability that they had been in the wrong body?

@PotholeParadies

I wonder, would you tell someone with a disability that they had been in the wrong body?

Not remotely comparable

Brcause you acknowledge that in the long-term, such attitudes towards disability are psychologically unhealthy, and in the short-term, you'd get told where to go?

What is wrong with people saying those things? Nothing. I'd defend your right to say such things for as long as you want to say them.

But not to insist that I say and believe them.

Not to try and enforce my saying it via laws, let alone SM harassment and threats.

But you'd have to also allow that I am equally correct in thinking you to be deluded. Human beings simply cannot change sex!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

What is wrong with people saying those things? Nothing. I'd defend your right to say such things for as long as you want to say them.

But not to insist that I say and believe them.

Not to try and enforce my saying it via laws, let alone SM harassment and threats.

But you'd have to also allow that I am equally correct in thinking you to be deluded. Human beings simply cannot change sex!

You would defend my right but you're moaning about people saying it.

Were those people TELLING you to believe it?

@PotholeParadies

Brcause you acknowledge that in the long-term, such attitudes towards disability are psychologically unhealthy, and in the short-term, you'd get told where to go?

No, because it's not remotely comparable.

You would defend my right but you're moaning about people saying it. I didn't say I wouldn't have an opnion on it!

Were those people TELLING you to believe it? You know that forst thread that we exhanged posts on? The one where I recommended you try out FWR? That was about just such a command wasn't it?

Laws being changed. The EA2010 being mis applied. MoJ, HoL etc etc.

Rooty
Those things are not “opinion” , they are evidently true. In the UK you are statistically more likely to be a murderer, than be murdered, as a male trans person.
In what way is not liking your body being born “in the wrong body” ? I don’t like my thighs, does that mean my body is wrong, and in fact a mistake was made and I should have thin thighs .
Being “kind” has got me into life threatening situations.

Yes...but it's a social upbringing. Not biology.

What evidence do you have for that assertion? Transwomen reject their socialisation and are still as likely to be violent / sex offenders as males who embrace their socialisation. The only thing they have in common is their maleness.

@RootyT00t

Oh come on garden.

Be kind came from the suicide of a young woman.

And I can guarantee the majority of MN posters peddled it at the time.

I think it has been slightly appropriated since then and repurposed to guilt women and girls into allowing male people to choose to use their single sex spaces because they feel that they don't want to use their own.

Your evidence being?

Our own ears

My lived experience

But evidence?

That is evidence pet. Unless you think that the words from women don't actually count, that you won't use mere female experiences as evidence