Conversion Therapy and a Survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth

[Shizuku]

Trigger Warning - this post discusses suicidal feelings.

As the banning of conversion therapy is currently being debated, it might be useful for members of this group to see a survey of 25,896 LGBTQ youth which found that 57% of transgender and non-binary youth who have undergone conversion therapy report a suicide attempt in the last year:

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2019/?section=Conversion-Therapy-Change-Attempts

If anyone reading this is experiencing suicidal thoughts, please know that suicide is preventable, and that support is available. Here is a link to the Samaritans:

www.samaritans.org/

Does the fact that it is American have any significance? (I.e can we explorate that to the UK?)

My massive concern is (with surveys like this in general) Q1 Are you LGBT+? Q2 Have you had suicidal thoughts in the past 12 months? That's it, that's the extent of the questions. Because it is very very bad to question anything to do with gender identity there is no way of knowing if other things are going on. There is much anecdata /(yes I know that doesn't make it a fact) that many young people have other issues going on as well - asd, CSA, and perhaps a multitude of ACE's (adverse childhood experiences) etc. Those things are still there but are being ignored as the young people are voicing it in the only way that they know how to. Without knowing what percentage have other risk factors it is meaningless.

I am not saying that LGBT children are not at risk, but bloody hell they deserve a much better service than just a load of nodding dogs. Evidently just pushing them down the gender route isn't working.

Attempting to change a child's gender identity is inherently harmful so trans people should be included in the ban on conversion therapy, unless you have some evidence that trans children are helped by someone trying to change their gender identity.

I don't understand the point of a trigger warning mentioning that there'll be a mention of something that's no more detailed than the mention in the trigger warning.

Also what's this got to do with feminism?

76% of the sample felt that recent politics impacted their mental health or sense of self

This is becoming truly tragic. 20% of LGBTQ young people report being physically harmed due to their gender identity or sexuality, and 70% report discrimination. Only half of trans youth have come out to their parents and 67% of LGBTQ youth have experienced some form of attempted conversion therapy. 39% of LGBTQ respondents seriously considered attempting suicide in the past twelve months and more than half of transgender and non-binary youth have seriously considered suicide.

Kind of puts the oppression the poor superstraights feel into perspective.

This research seems to bust a few myths as well. Young people are more likely to be open to their school, friends and family about their sexuality than their gender identity, suggesting the claim that LGB kids are coming out as trans due to homophobia is completely without foundation. As is the claim of online influence. Only around a third of young LGBTQ people have shared their gender identity or sexuality online.

And importantly over 60% thought it extremely or very important that crisis intervention services be LGBTQ focussed which is worrying given that in the UK there are growing calls to kick LGBTQ groups out of schools.

How many of the 25,896 surveyed had undergone conversion therapy?

transgender and non-binary youth who have undergone conversion therapy

What form does this conversion therapy for transgender and non-binary youth take, and who has been responsible for administering it?

Is counselling to discover whether a person is really transgender or is gay and suffering from internalised homophobia considered to be conversion therapy?

If someone attempts to convince another person that they are transgender, not gay, is that considered to be an attempt to change their sexual orientation?

This may be better posted on the LGBT boards?

Why would a crisis intervention service be in school? They are part of the NHS.

I have a daughter in the LGBT group. Her support is through specialist services not school.

That study is from the US and includes anyone who has experienced any dissuasive remarks, not just actual conversion therapy.

The NHS has said there is not an increased suicide risk among trans kids, so I don’t know why we keep rehashing it with info from other countries.

There has been a very high profile case recently where witnesses testified that homophobic parents were bringing their gay children to the Tavistock to be treated, because its acceptable to have a transgender child but not a gay one.

Scrutinised by judges, the integrity of the Tavistock review trumps this survey, for me.

Thanks.

No idea what this has to do with feminism.

Just a heads up that this survey is from 2018, so not particularly current.

Is counselling to discover whether a person is really transgender or is gay and suffering from internalised homophobia considered to be conversion therapy?

If someone attempts to convince another person that they are transgender, not gay, is that considered to be an attempt to change their sexual orientation?

I'd also like you to answer these questions, OP.

That study is from the US and includes anyone who has experienced any dissuasive remarks, not just actual conversion therapy.

I think we have to be careful how we define "conversion therapy"

It might also be useful for members of this group to note the following information, also available in the Trevor Project report, when considering the information the OP links to:

• Participants are recruited via targeted social media ads, and are therefore self-selecting rather than an unbiased sample.

• Only 5% of all LGBTQ youth included in the final sample reported undergoing conversion therapy = 1,295 participants

• Only 33% of all LGBTQ youth in the final sample were trans and nonbinary. There is no specific breakdown in the report of the % of trans and nonbinary youth who reported undergoing conversion therapy, but assuming the proportions remained the same, 33% of 1,295 participants = 427 participants.

• 57% of an estimated 427 trans and nonbinary survey participants who reported undergoing conversion therapy also reported a suicide attempt in the last year = 243 participants

So the actual number of participants reporting suicide attempts is not 14,761 (i.e. 57%) out of 25,896 participants, but an estimated 243 out of 25,896 participants.

Thank you! Good to know.

the actual number of trans and nonbinary participants
Apologies!

I would be interested to see studies into LGB young people in the UK with regard to their experiences of conversion therapy and I think that would be relevant data.

I think T young people could also do with a separate study about their mental health and interventions used.

Conflating the two populations are not helpful because sexuality and gender ID are two completely different things.

I think there is a difference between exploring feelings and holistic therapy and conversion therapy, so the terms of what constitute actual conversion therapy would need to be carefully defined too.

This study doesn't give any useful information for UK policy formation.

“ I think there is a difference between exploring feelings and holistic therapy and conversion therapy, so the terms of what constitute actual conversion therapy would need to be carefully defined too. ”
Totally agree with this. I think there needs to be a differentiation between conversion therapy (of the type that seeks to pursuance someone who is gay that they are straight) is very different to people being given support to explore their feelings, identity and how to beat manage their well-being in relation to their identity.

Are these two things being mixed up here?

I just saw the OP questioning what was the review of the Radio4 programme on conversion therapy has to do with feminism? And then this post 🤷🏽‍♀️

Seeing as the study includes discouragement from self-identifying into opposite sex bathrooms with physical harm and discrimination, I’m not inclined to view it as in good faith.
No highlighted comment on physical harm and what type/who perpetrated. That is surely really important.

So would there be any agreement here that trying to convert a trans child to cis is likely to be harmful to that child?

The think that makes this "survey" functionally useless is that it conflates, for "conversion therapy" purposes as much as for any other purposes, the LGB with the T.

So, it has a statement "2 in 3 youth in our study reported that someone tried to convince them to change their sexual orientation or gender identity".

So if 100 of those young people reported this, then approx 66 of those 100 say that someone "tried to convince them to change their sexual orientation or gender identity".

Except that the very common practice of telling young butch lesbians that they are "really trans guys" is also very common. Having homophobic parents who'd rather whisk you off to a gender clinic is also very common (see, for example, the testimonies from Tavistock staff).

So we don't know if those 66 are young gay men and young lesbians who have experienced other people telling them they are "really trans", or young gender nonconforming people of any stripe being given information about the options open to them which are not just "transition or die".

Depends how to define "convert".

Zapping with electricity and beating with hoses, not OK.

Gently pointing out that they can't become the opposite sex and helping them to accept the body they are in is OK.

@Shizuku

So would there be any agreement here that trying to convert a trans child to cis is likely to be harmful to that child?

I'm not even sure what this means/ looks like in practise.