Parliamentary debate on Monday to ban gay conversion therapy

[rabbitwoman]

Morning!

I have been keeping an eye out for a thread about this but can't see one....

Banning conversion therapy was a key manesfesto pledge by this government. Of course, gay conversion therapy is appalling and archaic and I am amazed its still legal in this country so of course I am all for a ban. The government have been slow off the mark, though.

A petition to ban conversion therapy reached 250000 so it is being raised in parliament on Monday. Great! I signed it myself.....

But then closer inspection of the wording of the petition raised alarm bells - it doesn't say gay conversion therapy, but LGBT therapy......

The recent decision to re evaluate the use of puberty blockers for children has caused a lot of anger and debate amongst many trans rights advocates, and I presume that the main thrust of the debate will be around the treatment of gender dysphoric children.

The Keira Bell case very much highlighted the problems with the Stonewall advocated approach of complete and immediate affirmation of transgender children and it would appear that actually, a range of treatments may be appropriate, including therapy and counselling that may question a child's gender distress and explore alternative causes, helping a child to successful outcomes that may not include transitioning.

In many places this has been reframed as 'conversion therapy'. I am very concerned that the thrust of the argument in parliament will be much less about the abhorrent practice of using psychological and physical torture to supress same sexual attraction, and more about outlawing a range of therapies for children presenting with gender dysphoria.

This has happened in Australia and the USA, and it looks like a call to folow suit here, which would raise concerns from a safeguarding viewpoint, as well as directly contradicting the findings of the recent Tavistock review. Making it illeagle to explore what could be alternative causes of gender dysphoria and heading straight to transition is a worrying treatment model.

There is also a lot of compelling evidence from the Tavistock review that gay children had been pushed into transition by homophobic parents - Marcus Evans, Susan Evans and Dr David Bell have all said this in public interviews.

The wording of this petition, though, seems to be a deliberate tactic to lump together perfectly reasonable and watchful therapies with abhorrent and sickening practises. I am concerned that the nuance will be missed by some and the progress that has been made since the review will be lost.

It is possible to believe that gay conversion therapy is wrong on every level, but also to think that hormones and surgery is not an appropriate pathway for many children currently identifying out of womanhood. Providing alternative treatments for gender dysphoric children should not be lumped in with gay conversion therapy.

I have tried to raise this on twitter and the replies I got seemed to be willfully refusing to see the difference.

I will be following the debate with interest, though!

One issue is that although conversion therapy is being said to be equally relevant to gay and trans people, it means something different in those contexts.

For gay people conversion therapy is discussion and at its most extreme, a drug regime.

For trans people anti-conversion therapy is discussion and at its most extreme, a drug regime.

Shizuku's thread that you may wish to post on:

Ahh. I see.

I'm a woman, and a feminist, I suffered conversion therapy.

Further justifications for the topic being on this board are not required, should anyone feel under any pressure to provide them.

The debate on Monday is the straw that has broken Jayne Ozanne's back, apparently

www.itv.com/news/2021-03-10/exclusive-government-creating-hostile-environment-for-lgbt-people-says-adviser-as-she-quits-over-conversion-therapy

Strange isn't it that standing up for safeguards should be the straw that breaks the camel's back...

.... More vague references to conversion therapy, linking the T in with LBG, without bring clear about exactly what T conversion therapy consists of within these proposals.

If it IS to ban watchful therapies, to prevent children with dysphoria from getting access to alternative therapies to affirmation and medical intervention, like Australia and the US, why don't they just SAY SO!

How many times are we going to have to ask for details?

They must KNOW that they cannot do this covertly, that people are watching?

@BuntingEllacott

I'm a woman, and a feminist, I suffered conversion therapy.

Further justifications for the topic being on this board are not required, should anyone feel under any pressure to provide them.

It's a real shame that it couldn't be just about gay conversion therapy, just this once, without a catch.

If Jayne Ozanne can't see the problem with affirming dysphoric kids, good riddance.

It’s so illogical to equate the two! Not only are the etiologies of “gay” and “trans” completely different, so too are the consequences. If you identify as gay and then later decide you’re not, no harm has been done. The same can’t be said about identifying as trans. To put it mildly.

One thing I am wondering about equating actual gay conversion therapy with non-affirming therapy for trans people... are there knock on consequences for therapists whose clients are questioning their sexuality? Will it soon be as impossible for therapists to effectively counsel someone who’s wondering if she might be a lesbian, as it is becoming for them to counsel people who think they might be trans?

Ozanne can get tae fuck, tbh. She's part of a church cohort that speaks out of both sides of their mouths and undermine the scant progress LGB people have made in a homophobic institution by being so desperate to accomodate the niche insecurities of straight people who have always been able to love and marry the people that they are attracted to without fear of hell or social censure for doing so. In fact, those straight people may even be told it's better to marry than not.

She's not standing against conversion therapy, she's casting herself as a martyr for the cause of people who still think being homosexual is adjustable and can be effectively hidden by claiming another identity.

Not that I have opinion.

I really really really really hope the UK MPs debate is of a higher quality than the Canadian NDPs debate. we'll see ....

The Canadian NDP member of the Justice Committee which reviewed Bill C-6 Conversion therapy, says women like Keira Bell who have detransitioned are a ‘false narrative.’. (Plenty of Canadian detransitioners like Benji, but Keira gets called out because a High Court looked at facts and found the ideology wanting)