Clothing liberation

[Happinessisawarmcervix]

I thought this was interesting - a supermarket worker is in the news for wearing a skirt to work because he wants to and it feels more comfortable, but is happy as a man and doesn’t want to transition.

As Eddie Izzard used to say - “these aren’t women’s clothes, they are my clothes.”

I hope this won’t get deleted as being about a specific person. I hope it opens the door for other men to defy gender stereotypes in clothing or in hobbies/interests/activities.

Link www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/beverley-tesco-worker-can-finally-5067962

Good for him, and any man who wears whatever he wants, and doesn't care what people think. There was once a time when women wearing trousers was scandalous, I hope men wearing skirts, make up, carrying bags etc, if they want, becomes as acceptable as a woman in shorts is now in the U.K.

It's sad to think there are still places, where women can't show their faces, never mind wear skimpy or form hugging clothes, being gay can land you life sentence in prison, and you'd put your life at risk, rebelling like this.

It's ironic because mens fashion has changed so much, historically, but fashion will repeat itself, and men in skirts etc, was well overdue a comeback.

Personally, I wish more men would wear kohl/eyeliner, I find that such a sexy look.

I hardly think it's exaggeration to make an observation. You don't have to agree with me.
Personally I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it's sexist to be frustrated at shitty clothing quality.
I am not enjoying the hostility so fine, you are right and I need to shop elsewhere. Not Topshop though as the sizes are crap.

I think there could be a problem in that a lot of clothes designers, are imaging a bag with womens outfits?

It does annoy me that my phone only fits in one of my jacket/coat pockets, and is always falling out of my jeans pocket, but fits in most of ds's (smaller fitting) boys jacket/coat pockets.

It would be nice if more womens trousers, came with the sort of adjustable waistband you get on kids trousers. I get really bloated sometimes, especially around my period, and the extra give (without having to buy clothes in 3 sizes) would be nice.

@TheBuffster

Fuck this I'm opting for nudism. Might wait till Spring though,- bit nippy.

Now pockets really would become a problem!

@ArabellaScott

Good for him, seems a lovely chap.

Seems MN have decuded to only allow positive comments on this man who has gone to the press to discuss how wearing what he describes as "women's clothes" makes him feel. I suggest we read the article again and look at what he is saying rather than put our own clothing liberation spin on it.

So I won't comment or make any statement . I'll just ask a question.

Do you all think that the girlfriends whose clothes he decided were for sharing would describe that behaviour as making him a "lovely chap" ?

@TinselAngel

I've been robustly debating this on Twitter all morning but I can't say anything else here in case I get banned.

So you are allowed to say more on Twitter than here on the feminist boards of a parenting forum populated mostly by women? And we all know how bad twitter is for tolerating women's opinions.

I'm sorry Tinsel , that's awful. I'd hoped this was a more supportive place for you and the other widows

The gentleman concerned appears to be wearing a padded bra.

Great
Agree that the reason men traditionally don't wear clothes stereotypes as women's is because it's seen as lesser. Anyone can wear a skirt,

So you are allowed to say more on Twitter than here on the feminist boards of a parenting forum populated mostly by women?
Yes I can speak much more freely on Twitter.

Good for him, and any man who wears whatever he wants, and doesn't care what people think.

Read the article again and have a good look at the pictures. That is not what is happening here.

He certainly does remind me of Eddie Izzard.

This quote is interesting. “I do have wigs but I don’t really wear them and just have my natural hair.

Tinsel .

And ... breathe.

Seems MN have decuded to only allow positive comments on this man who has gone to the press to discuss how wearing what he describes as "women's clothes" makes him feel. I suggest we read the article again and look at what he is saying rather than put our own clothing liberation spin on it

There is one deleted message and 1 message withdrawn by the poster. There plenty of posts diagnosing him as autogynophile and questioning his motived so I'm not sure why you are complaining that MN are only allowing positive comments.

This thread is a classic of some posters hypocrisy and confirmation bias about clothes.

The bloke we discussed a while back was condemned as AGP because he wore high heels and tight skirts. This bloke is wearing flat shoes and the dowdiest, most unflattering outfit imaginable but apparently he's doing it for kicks too.

There's the obligatory wide-eyed incredulous post that anyone, man or women, could choose a skirt.

There's the obligatory posts that everything for men is better than women- including the patronising and over exaggerated posts about women being "shoe- horned" into buying too tight clothes every season (seriously where on earth do some of you shop?- is this shop beside the last remaining toy shop that still has aisles marked "boys and girls"?)

This man's other crimes including sharing his wife's wardrobe -yet how many other threads on here have the words" I'm sitting here wearing DH's ......"

To be fair, this bloke is wearing the prescribed tesco women's uniform. He doesn't have the option of wearing anything more stylish, and the dowdiness of the Tesco uniform shouldn't be taken to reflect his tastes in dress outside working hours.

is this shop beside the last remaining toy shop that still has aisles marked "boys and girls"?)
The aisles are still clearly separate despite being unmarked. Everyone knows which side they're meant to be shopping from.

Are you always this deeply unpleasant to people who have opposing views?

@MissBarbary

Seems MN have decuded to only allow positive comments on this man who has gone to the press to discuss how wearing what he describes as "women's clothes" makes him feel. I suggest we read the article again and look at what he is saying rather than put our own clothing liberation spin on it

There is one deleted message and 1 message withdrawn by the poster. There plenty of posts diagnosing him as autogynophile and questioning his motived so I'm not sure why you are complaining that MN are only allowing positive comments.

This thread is a classic of some posters hypocrisy and confirmation bias about clothes.

The bloke we discussed a while back was condemned as AGP because he wore high heels and tight skirts. This bloke is wearing flat shoes and the dowdiest, most unflattering outfit imaginable but apparently he's doing it for kicks too.

There's the obligatory wide-eyed incredulous post that anyone, man or women, could choose a skirt.

There's the obligatory posts that everything for men is better than women- including the patronising and over exaggerated posts about women being "shoe- horned" into buying too tight clothes every season (seriously where on earth do some of you shop?- is this shop beside the last remaining toy shop that still has aisles marked "boys and girls"?)

This man's other crimes including sharing his wife's wardrobe -yet how many other threads on here have the words" I'm sitting here wearing DH's ......"

There really is no contradiction between wanting society, including retailers, to be less negatively gendered and realising that the fact that it is leads to the fetishisation of those same gendered stereotypes.

None at all.

What is a contradiction is stonewall deliberately included cross dressing and transvestism under their transgender umbrella, but speculation about it is heavily censored, when it's not being outright denied.

“Seems MN have decuded to only allow positive comments on this man”

@WanderinWomb I think MN don’t usually like comments directed about a specific person, hence the discussion remaining quite general.

I’ve accepted that I was naiive in the original post.

What is a contradiction is stonewall deliberately included cross dressing and transvestism under their transgender umbrella, but speculation about it is heavily censored, when it's not being outright denied.

Stonewall includes transvestism and crossdressing under the transgender umbrella for precisely the arguments in this thread - that many of them face the same backlash and harassment trans people do. This man who's done nothing to indicate being transgender is dubbed autogynephilic and a fetishist in the same way that transphobes will attack trans women. It doesn't matter that he's (likely) not trans, it's piled onto the same heap to be set on fire by people who don't tolerate transgender people.

So someone is trans because they're AGP, but also likely not trans.

Got it.

*So someone is trans because they're AGP, but also likely not trans.

Got it.*

'AGP' in itself is entirely bullshit.

They fit under the 'transgender umbrella' in that they're likely to face the same violence, but crossdressing in itself is not being transgender.

AGP is bullshit but also under the trans umbrella? You're not being clear.

They fit under the 'transgender umbrella' in that they're likely to face the same violence, but crossdressing in itself is not being transgender.

That's not what stonewall say tho. Drag queens are also under the stonewall umbrella.

I’m all for this, people should be able to wear whatever the hell they want! Although some women might disagree I do agree that skirts are often more comfortable than trousers. I would have loved to have worn trousers as school uniform though as that wouldn’t have been sanctioned. Likewise if a boy wanted to wear a skirt at school then they should be allowed to free from fear or ridicule. Clothes are just clothes - they shouldn’t subscribe to sex classifications.

AGP is bullshit but also under the trans umbrella? You're not being clear.

AGP is bullshit that doesn't exist that was made up by an abusive medicist who was forced out of his position.

That's not what stonewall say tho. Drag queens are also under the stonewall umbrella.

The 'Transgender umbrella' doesn't cover people who are transgender, it covers people who face transphobic violence.

The 'Transgender umbrella' doesn't cover people who are transgender, it covers people who face transphobic violence.

That's not what Stonewall say:

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

Nothing about transphobic violence.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms#t