Clothing liberation

[Happinessisawarmcervix]

I thought this was interesting - a supermarket worker is in the news for wearing a skirt to work because he wants to and it feels more comfortable, but is happy as a man and doesn’t want to transition.

As Eddie Izzard used to say - “these aren’t women’s clothes, they are my clothes.”

I hope this won’t get deleted as being about a specific person. I hope it opens the door for other men to defy gender stereotypes in clothing or in hobbies/interests/activities.

Link www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/beverley-tesco-worker-can-finally-5067962

@Alicethruthelookingglass

I miss deadhead guys in sarongs and spinny skirts. I miss punk guys in utilikilts (lots of pockets). Men can wear skirts. I like it better when they don't pretend it changes who they are. In fact, I dig men who don't gaf about gender roles and whether they are 'manly' enough, they exude a confidence in self and sexuality that is quite appealing.

Yes, this 👆

I've often wondered why more English men don't wear skirts, especially in summer. I'm sure many would benefit from a nice breeze.

Yes but the choice of shoes downs often let them down....

@Sleepyhead

Check out Utilikilts. Pocketses galore. I'm thinking of stealing dh's since he hasn't worn it in years....

We need more men like him.

@NiceGerbil

I have some fab skirts with pockets, it is more than possible!

What I hate is fake or barely functional pockets on women's clothes grrr

So do I. And most of my dresses have pockets.

However whilst I might put my phone in a pocket in the office I'd never put phone, cards, keys etc in a pocket if I were going out. They ruin the line of clothes and are less secure than a cross body bag.

Many younger men carry cross body bags- it's not just a female thing.

23:13MsFogi

I bet man-skirts have not only pockets but are wide enough to stride along rather than totter for fear of ripping the centre seam

Eh ? Really? What nonsense- skirts come in all sorts of shapes, styles, fabrics. You personally might not like them but do you have to make things up to justify it?

I don't know. I have a hard time caring whether men and women have identical clothing customs.

I suppose because I don't really think anyone's clothes allow them to "be themselves" and they don't stop them from "being themselves" unless they are particularly restrictive. That has happened in some significant instances but I can't think of much in the way of examples in modern western countries.

Oh for goodness sake. Haven't I taught you all anything over the last 4 years?

"I often get asked if I’m gay – well no, I’m not, I’ve had girlfriends and it’s great because we can share a wardrobe,” said Jeremy.”

This tends not to be consensual, and men who wear skirts genuinely because it is more comfortable, don't also wear nail varnish and high heels.

Clothing liberation my arse.

@TinselAngel

Oh for goodness sake. Haven't I taught you all anything over the last 4 years?

"I often get asked if I’m gay – well no, I’m not, I’ve had girlfriends and it’s great because we can share a wardrobe,” said Jeremy.”

This tends not to be consensual, and men who wear skirts genuinely because it is more comfortable, don't also wear nail varnish and high heels.

Are you talking in general or about Jeremy?

Jeremy isn't wearing high heels in those photographs.

As for wearing nail varnish- I'm puzzled at your anger. I thought the general mantra on here was make up is fine, in theory, for anyone who wants to wear it- including men (unless they actually do)

Read the fifth paragraph of the article and then read the trans widows threads.

@MissBarbary
I agree, there is nothing like a good cross-body bag. When I am bereft of pockets or need more space, I carry a leather messenger bag. It's probably a 'man's', but it looks nice, is roomy and it can be made very secure. Darn thing is almost 20 years old and people still compliment me on it and want to know where I found it.

Gosh yes. Crossbody bag the only one that feels safe and comfortable. I also have a Secrid credit card wallet which contains my cards along with my driving licence too. I like a secure pocket to put that in separately.

@TeiTetua

Women's clothes don't have pockets (or only feeble ones) but women generally carry handbags to make up for it. If men gave up clothes with pockets, would they then find handbags were a necessity? That would be a profound social change. We might be seeing sporrans south of the border.

And if a skirt did have enough pocket space for a full set of personal items, would it show ugly bulges? Or maybe that's a problem that could be solved somehow.

The lack of pockets was a conscious misogynist decision. Women's fashion is & was designed to look beautiful, men's for function. Add in an often needed 'complimentary purse or bag to really finish the look' and you have women mostly being mandated to buy extra items (in order to bring anything, like a wallet), and women being shamed for 'looking frumpy'.

Similarly a lot of 'fashionable women's shirts' are so thin they're see through so they'll sell along with extra shirts, blouses or bra's, depending on the individual.

It's quite pathetic that 'fitted pants and skirts with pockets' could count as feminist.

At the risk of completely bringing down the serious tone of this.... these men in skirts are quite hot (threw in a picture of Brad Pitt for good measure)

@TinselAngel

Clothing liberation my arse.

Agree but I got a deletion for saying so.

I think he may want to have a word with the journo who write his story.

Men should wear skirts if they want to. Clothes are clothes. But if you are going to go to the papers, try amd make sure they present your story in a way that doesn't contradict what you are saying amd imply something entirely different.

way back in the mid 1980's on my second day at work I got hauled into the managers office. ..For wearing trousers! how times have changed..fabulous!

I don’t think we can analyse Jeffrey’s words too much (he does mention liking heels, getting his nails done and wigs) in terms of then theorising what his individual motivation may be as that wouldn’t be an appropriate thing to do and risk deletion. However I do respect Tinsel’s experience and caution.

Widening out the discussion a little to the topic in general. Do we celebrate women wearing trousers, or masculine suit tailoring etc? Did we celebrate women wearing trousers when it was the first women were openly doing that just because they felt more comfortable and practical? Was the focus “these women are wearing men’s clothes!” in the same way that cases like this often are as “man wears women’s clothes” rather than “man just happens to wear skirt”. The difference to me is - is the focus on breaking down barriers and the clothing item becoming unisex; or is the focus on the transgression of one sex wearing the other sex’s clothing. With the former barrier-breaking there tends to be a feeling of fighting against traditional restrictions for everyone’s freedom, everyone can access this clothing item; with the latter, there tends to be an atmosphere of celebrating an individual’s quirk of going against the norm whilst cementing that it is and should be the norm and just this individual is different. Does that make sense??? Is the focus on the act itself, or the controversy/taboo nature of it. If a skirt was just a skirt, rather than a woman’s skirt, it may not be quite as attractive to some men to wear.

Billy Porter is a fabulous man to listen to on this topic. He has said some very interesting things about clothing, gender, misogyny and homophobia etc when being interviewed about his well publicised outfits, sorry I don’t have any links to hand but well worth seeking out if you haven’t seen them before. Plus he is just a beautiful person.

He might be better off with culottes 👌

Cwenthryth I think what you're saying is right. Won't say any more in case I get another deletion What I said wasn't actually deletion worthy IMO but nothing much can be said these days.

"I often get asked if I’m gay – well no, I’m not, I’ve had girlfriends and it’s great because we can share a wardrobe,” said Jeremy.”

I did raise my eyebrows a little at this line, I thought this was about his own clothing choices, that he, as an adult, had chosen for himself.

But then I am not a fan of sharing clothes.

I do think we should just normalise men wearing skirts though, so that it just becomes a choice they have like we can choose trousers, skirts or dresses.

Here's Billy Porter talking about gender and patriarchy and clothes

I agree it’s bizarre and restrictive that wearing skirts/dresses is still not generally a thing for men - despite all the ones they’ve worn in the past like togas, and special categories that are deemed ok like kilts.

It would be great if more men did it in a non-fetishy, comfort-based way. I can imagine skirts and dresses designed for men, eg for wearing in hot weather that weren’t about femininity as such but just about suiting men and adding to their wardrobes.

Billy porter’s a great example - with him you can see that he thinks about what works for him, not “oo-er women’s clothes”