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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans rights don't effect women's rights.

160 replies

ASugar · 04/03/2021 07:16

There is so much misinformation on this website and at places such as 'Fair Play For Women' that claims transgender rights effect women's rights. It is incorrect.

Firstly, nothing has proven that transgender women have the same crime rate as biological, cis men. It isn't biological and actually continuing this false narrative is allowing cis men to not take responsibility.

Secondly, Trans women and men pose no additional threat in prisons linked with their sex. They have been assaulted and abused to the same degree that they may have acted on which is why transgender wards are being put into place. However the issue isn't the fact TW or TM are in prisons assosiated with their gender, our prison systems aren't safe for anyone. That's what we should be concerned about and advocating for change within.

Thirdly, the bathroom debate. Transgender women have shown to pose no higher threat in single sex spaces than cisgender women. Meaning that denying their rights to use public bathrooms is unjustified. This actually is all recycled arguments from when lesbians and women of color wanted to use single sex spaces and wanted protection by the equality act for it.

And lastly, please stop believing everything you read online. A lot of the material made by the gender critical community is false. It is fabricated to scare you into believing them. Please take some time to do some research, speak to transgender people and learn that trans rights are not a debate.

OP posts:
Original poster
ASugar · 04/03/2021 07:32

@CrazyNeighbour As someone who's primary job is working with young women and girls on their rights and works within sexual health, I can confirm that they do not effect one another.

OP posts:
LumpySpacedPrincess · 04/03/2021 07:32

For the record do you believe we exist? Women and girls, human females. It's always worth checking as a starting point that the person you're debating with doesn't believe you're a mythical beastie.

Soontobe60 · 04/03/2021 07:33

@ASugar

There is so much misinformation on this website and at places such as 'Fair Play For Women' that claims transgender rights effect women's rights. It is incorrect.

Firstly, nothing has proven that transgender women have the same crime rate as biological, cis men. It isn't biological and actually continuing this false narrative is allowing cis men to not take responsibility.

Secondly, Trans women and men pose no additional threat in prisons linked with their sex. They have been assaulted and abused to the same degree that they may have acted on which is why transgender wards are being put into place. However the issue isn't the fact TW or TM are in prisons assosiated with their gender, our prison systems aren't safe for anyone. That's what we should be concerned about and advocating for change within.

Thirdly, the bathroom debate. Transgender women have shown to pose no higher threat in single sex spaces than cisgender women. Meaning that denying their rights to use public bathrooms is unjustified. This actually is all recycled arguments from when lesbians and women of color wanted to use single sex spaces and wanted protection by the equality act for it.

And lastly, please stop believing everything you read online. A lot of the material made by the gender critical community is false. It is fabricated to scare you into believing them. Please take some time to do some research, speak to transgender people and learn that trans rights are not a debate.

I’ll follow your advice and stop believing everything I read online. Particularly the absolute load of nonsense you’ve just written 🤷🏼‍♀️
334bu · 04/03/2021 07:34

Firstly, nothing has proven that transgender women have the same crime rate as biological, cis men. It isn't biological and actually continuing this false narrative is allowing cis men to not take responsibility.

Unfortunately the above is untrue and this false narrative allows males of all gender identities : men, transwomen, non binary people born male etc to not take responsibility.for male violence.
The Ministry of Justice does not make up data on offending by transwomen and their data shows quite clearly that transwomen show male patterns of criminality.
Refusing to face this does the trans community no favours .

LastRoloIsMine · 04/03/2021 07:34

This is the anti-trans board.
No this is a feminist board so it centers females.

Strange how discussing feminisim is instantly labelled as anti trans....

TheFive · 04/03/2021 07:35

That opening post sounded like a Year 9 English persuasive writing piece.

Not sure you passed.

VashtaNerada · 04/03/2021 07:35

I agree with the OP.

midgedude · 04/03/2021 07:35

Oh do grow up and do your own research before spouting nonsense like transwomen are not proven to have the same offending rates as other men.

That's like saying it's not proven than one type of lemon isn't exactly the same as another type of lemon. They are still lemons and clearly different to oranges

They certainly have been proven to offend like men and not like women. There may be minor differences between trans and other men. When it comes to sexual offences Those differences may be in favour of the other men

Numicon · 04/03/2021 07:36

Yeah, you're gonna need actual proof and facts on this board. We don't just stop understanding scientific facts based on a scolding Hmm

MildredPuppy · 04/03/2021 07:38

Actually, i dont know what rights women have. I know that sounds absurd but most things are human rights.

Things like access to evidenced based medicine with informed consent are for all people. As are things like safeguarding best practice.

I think there are a few rights around single sex provision of services, medical procedures and and maternity laws.

Is competitive sport or access to posts like Womens Officer or schemes to promote female engineers a right? They are there to support equality to give women more economic, social and political power so they are important..

Doingitaloneandproud · 04/03/2021 07:38

I will continue to stick up for women's rights, as they seem to be getting ignored. Why should women have to be okay with this, just because trans people say so.
I'm all for trans rights but it should not wipe out the rights of another group, they have to be in unison. Right now it seems trans groups want things their way only and women should just have to accept that Hmm

Nellodee · 04/03/2021 07:39

I think you should also know that we tend to view comparisons of back women with transwomen as being extremely racist in this board. We believe that a person is a woman because they are of the sex that under normal development produces the large gametes. Transwomen do not fit this criteria. There is no reason other than racism to deny that blank women are as fully female as any other colour woman.

WhatWozZat · 04/03/2021 07:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 04/03/2021 07:41

I love a bit of early morning wokesplaining

Do please direct us to the links for the empirical peer reviewed evidence for all your statements. I’m sure you have it.

Moirarose2021 · 04/03/2021 07:42

TW in women's sports do affect women /girls. My dp is not a risk in women's spaces, I still do not want him in them ( and he has no desire to be in them), if TW are unsafe in male spaces that is for men to sort, TW have rights and should campaign for them but they don't get our rights

Doyoumind · 04/03/2021 07:43

Simply saying something doesn't make it so, OP. You need to do some fact checking because there's a whole lot more knowledge on here than you are in possession of.

MummytoCSJH · 04/03/2021 07:43

[quote ASugar]@CrazyNeighbour As someone who's primary job is working with young women and girls on their rights and works within sexual health, I can confirm that they do not effect one another.[/quote]
And your opinion is the be all and end all is it?

mangoontoast · 04/03/2021 07:44

@LastRoloIsMine

This is the anti-trans board. No this is a feminist board so it centers females.

Strange how discussing feminisim is instantly labelled as anti trans....

Because it is the one topic on here. It is the only thing you discuss. So yeah, a board that talks exclusively about anti trans stuff IS labelled anti trans. There is so much more to feminism than this but none of that stuff is discussed her.
Doyoumind · 04/03/2021 07:44

@EdgedInBlue

Well that's us told.

Next on the agenda, ladies - Soreen. To butter or not?

Most definitely butter.
GCAcademic · 04/03/2021 07:45

Women are assaulted often without a penis involved too. Our prison systems need to be safer as a whole.

Oh well, that's alright then. If they're assaulted anyway they can be expected to put up with a bit of rape as well, can't they?

334bu · 04/03/2021 07:45

I agree with the OP.

Why? Do you have proof that contradicts the male patterns of criminality exhibited by transwomen in official statistics?

picklemewalnuts · 04/03/2021 07:45

Every transwoman on a podium has prevented a woman from competing and from winning. We are trying to encourage women into sports for health reasons, not to discourage them and push them out.

Nellodee · 04/03/2021 07:45

The OP is somewhat correct in that there is quite limited evidence on crime statistics. The Swedish study is now quite old and didn’t look at different types of crime. The MoJ statistics are very woolly and getting them has been like squeezing blood from rock.
What evidence we do have very much points towards a male pattern of criminality in transwomen, but I would very much welcome a joint push between feminists and transactivists to collect much better data so that we could decide the issue once and for all.
Any objections, OP?

donquixotedelamancha · 04/03/2021 07:46

As someone who's primary job is working with young women and girls on their rights and works within sexual health, I can confirm that they do not effect one another.

You've been asked by a number of people to be clear and cite evidence but you just keep giving opinion. How about starting by defining your terms and focusing on one area:

You say women should not have a right to single sex spaces and these should be segregated by gender.

What is a transwoman for this purpose? At what point is a male who socially transitions safe enough to put in a cell with a woman?

How do you feel about the tapes and sexual assaults which have occured when this has happened?

Sophoclesthefox · 04/03/2021 07:46

Good morning, OP.

Welcome to the feminism board. You’ve probably heard terrible things about it, very few of which are true.

What is true is that we’re terrible grammar pedants, and that you’ve come here to “educate” us and inadvertently made a GC point by saying that “trans rights don’t effect women’s rights”, which I completely agree with, is a very amusing point to browse while I drink my coffee Grin

Trans rights do affect women’s rights though, unfortunately, because if we can’t define who women are and why we might have or need specific rights, those rights are degraded and eroded.

It’s also good netiquette to try to get a feel for a board before launching in, maybe have a read round and get a feel for the place?

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