Non binary confused and sad

[Mumteedum]

I am late forties and until now non binary people haven't entered my orbit. I work in HE, and have had plenty of trans students so it's only been a matter of time.

As with any of my students, I will support them and never offer any judgement. I'm grateful that so far my uni does not compel anyone to state pronouns etc.

But I suddenly just feel sad and confused about this whole thing. I sort of 'get' trans even though I recognize the pressures and issues around it.

Non binary to me for a young woman who lives in a female body just feels like a sad thing. That they are rejecting womanhood. I don't understand really. What do they think being a woman is? How can anyone say what feeling male or female is? I look at all these gender definitions and it's just exhausting. I feel sad that being a woman can't mean all the different types of people it always did, anymore.

They have to work out their sexuality and their gender based on vague and confusing definitions. I grew up knowing I fancied boys but never gave a thought to gender beyond not particularly liking stereotypical stuff like dolls and was a bit of a goth in my teens. Have we just replaced teenage identities like goths or whatever, with this gender stuff? I really feel for young people.

Many of my previous trans students have mentioned they should deal with their identity or they must get on with transitioning. It seems so pressured. I didn't have any trans students until about 2015.

I feel old. I am not cis and wont be stating my bluddy pronouns anytime soon. Sorry for the ramble. Just needed to get it out.

You make an interesting point about the demographic.

Particularly for female, I would think there's an element of the need to mask making them feel like they 'dont belong'. They may well confuse sexuality and gender.

Where my confusion comes is that as an overwhelming majority on here insist on gender being a made up concept, that seems something unlikely for an autistic youngster to favour.

Speaking for myself here I am not discussing toilets. Though others are free to.

I have not used the word 'exploit' nor, I think, implied it.

I said that there are a whole bunch of things that go together with teenage, pre teen and young adult, females presenting as trans (in 2021, and from about 2015).

Prior to that most trans youth were male. This is what I have heard from the Tavistock's 'whistke blower'.

Sone people who start out identifying as trans might then decide to be non-binary or vice versa.

My sole issue here is that medical procedures might be undertaken by people believing this is right for them, only to regret it later.

Non-binary does sometimes mean the young person binds their breasts or has then removed, and it takes testosterone.

I don't really care what pronouns people choose or names it style of clothes. I personally use name or pronouns that others request.

But fir me, autisn us a real factor. To not take this aspect seriously is to miss something significant. There are other things too - to what I have mentioned, being lesbian, being abused.

If trans identity is an innate gender identity why are so many people with similar experiences also in possession of this inate identity (who happen to be teenage, pre teen or young adult females)?

@Italiangreyhound

Speaking for myself here I am not discussing toilets. Though others are free to.

I have not used the word 'exploit' nor, I think, implied it.

I said that there are a whole bunch of things that go together with teenage, pre teen and young adult, females presenting as trans (in 2021, and from about 2015).

Prior to that most trans youth were male. This is what I have heard from the Tavistock's 'whistke blower'.

Sone people who start out identifying as trans might then decide to be non-binary or vice versa.

My sole issue here is that medical procedures might be undertaken by people believing this is right for them, only to regret it later.

Non-binary does sometimes mean the young person binds their breasts or has then removed, and it takes testosterone.

I don't really care what pronouns people choose or names it style of clothes. I personally use name or pronouns that others request.

But fir me, autisn us a real factor. To not take this aspect seriously is to miss something significant. There are other things too - to what I have mentioned, being lesbian, being abused.

If trans identity is an innate gender identity why are so many people with similar experiences also in possession of this inate identity (who happen to be teenage, pre teen or young adult females)?

It's a good question , and I haven't got the answers.

Maybe the groups you identified are more likely to feel unease with their identity than others?

Gender is widely accepted as a social contruct. So 'made up concept' is not really clear. Gender as it is presented is totally 'made' by society, animals don't express gender.

It's largely fixed in time and place. Look at French blokes 300 years ago, what was considered masculine was very different to now.

The question is, is it an innate part of someone's make up. That's the difference between gender identity and gender expression, as far as I am aware.

This is the problem, for me with making assumptions about 'gender' being something inate, from the inside, rather than simply an external expression.

I think some people are very unhappy with their biological sex and that for me is more the issue. For young trans people it may start with pronouns and clothes but does it end with hormones and surgery? Those are my fears.

It's important, I think, to understand and not just assume that things are not linked if there is evidence they are. Before medicalising a while bunch of people we should explore this scientifically, IMHO.

not and it takes testosterone.

and/or takes testosterone.

not names it style
names or style

@Italiangreyhound

Gender is widely accepted as a social contruct. So 'made up concept' is not really clear. Gender as it is presented is totally 'made' by society, animals don't express gender.

It's largely fixed in time and place. Look at French blokes 300 years ago, what was considered masculine was very different to now.

The question is, is it an innate part of someone's make up. That's the difference between gender identity and gender expression, as far as I am aware.

This is the problem, for me with making assumptions about 'gender' being something inate, from the inside, rather than simply an external expression.

I think some people are very unhappy with their biological sex and that for me is more the issue. For young trans people it may start with pronouns and clothes but does it end with hormones and surgery? Those are my fears.

It's important, I think, to understand and not just assume that things are not linked if there is evidence they are. Before medicalising a while bunch of people we should explore this scientifically, IMHO.

Yep I agree. Wholeheartedly.

My issue comes with people denying it and calling it nonsense.

"Maybe the groups you identified are more likely to feel unease with their identity than others?"

They are. But why?

So much research needs doing. But I bet it doesn't get done because of the fear it will invalidate trans identity.

@Italiangreyhound

"Maybe the groups you identified are more likely to feel unease with their identity than others?"

They are. But why?

So much research needs doing. But I bet it doesn't get done because of the fear it will invalidate trans identity.

Well, people from backgrounds of abuse or unsure of their sexuality or who are not NT are more likely to not feel comfortable in themselves than anyone else, which may lead them to trans.

Odd that we as a society tend to ignore male anxiety and mental health and focus on the vulnerable females.

"My issue comes with people denying it and calling it nonsense."

It's harmful to assign rules of behaviour to people on the basis of their physical sex. That's where I'd come from.

Goodnight

'We' do not ignore make vulnerability. Patriarchy is afraid of make vulnerability. Patriarchy is not good fir makes either.

male.

If men do want to cry or talk a out their feelings who do you think they turn to? Their mates or dad? Or female friends and mum?

I think makes perpetuate this attitude. Very sad.

Night.

They don't turn to anyone - that's the problem.

@Italiangreyhound

'We' do not ignore make vulnerability. Patriarchy is afraid of make vulnerability. Patriarchy is not good fir makes either.

Absolutely!

I have read everyone's responses with interest and it has been helpful to work out my feelings on this a bit more.