MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Just seen on Twitter.

Will post links

So jj if segregation good enough in a women’s prison it would be fine in a male prison. Plus there is already facility for vulnerable prisoners so why are they not there? ( actually they may not actually be as vulnerable as people would have you believe)

That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkard.

Ugh.

One of the people responsible for drawing up the Scottish Prison policy( no consultation with female prisoners or prison staff of course) on transgender prisoners was Gordon Pike.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/prison-officer-facing-jail-after-9576200

But the people making "inclusive" policies are always completely moral and progressive individuals who we should aspire to emulate!

@KeepPrisonsSingleSex

I am pleased that the question of the 'far right' has come up, so thank you to the poster who raised it.

Whenever I made the decision to make use of a platform, be interviewed by someone, or otherwise involve someone in the work that I do, I apply the following test:

Can I look a female prisoner who is currently being held alongside a TW in the eyes and tell her that I decided not to do something because (insert reasons here)?

Yes, there are some things that would meet that test, meaning that I could look her in the eyes with a clear conscience and tell her that I decided not to do something, which on the face of it could bring valuable publicity. Being interviewed by Sonia Poulton does not meet that test. Neither does being interviewed by Glinner.

If someone else's threshold would be different, I respect that. Please respect where I have set mine.

👏👏👏👏

Looking the vulnerable in the eyes and standing up for them is the right starting point. policy makers at the MoJ take note.

Good test btw

@Datun

Keepprisonssinglesex

Thank you for everything you are doing. And yes, that test is an excellent one.

The desperation of people appropriating everything under the sun to stop women publicising these issues, is a testament to the women who refuse to be intimidated.

Thank you.

Just to be clear, that JJ's threshold means not being interviewed by Sonia Poulton, is one that I respect.

So basically, the MOJ is insisting that the Equality Act doesn’t apply to women if they are incarcerated (but does to men who identify as women).

It is mystifying.

And why is it that a sex offender can get a gender certificate, but if he says that he is thinking about having his penis removed, he first has to spend two years in the female estate in order to prove that he is serious? It's almost like the gatekeeping is all about safeguarding penises!

Is it an actual policy, or what?
It came up in the Jones case and in the court case of an unnamed paedophile who sued the government (he lost partly because Barrett et al. weren't convinced that his dysphoria didn't have a paraphilic element - didn't stop them from prescribing cross-sex hormones and referring to him as a woman )

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/3565.html

I'm wondering if the UK govt could be in breach of international human rights law by placing male born rapists in the female estate?

^good question. hope a legal person can share some wisdom

I'm also wondering if the judges will clarify what the MoJ should have done with respect to the Equality Act.

Weren't peers in the House of Lords saying guidance to public bodies needs to be reviewed? Will the judges verdict in this case will affect all public bodies? could it affect Bills too?

The test sound very sensible. I wouldn’t pay much attention to posters with bees in their bonnets over feminists being in bed with the right wing. It’s both tedious and irrelevant. Publicising causes means dealing with a wide variety of platforms and outlets, and anyone who hasn’t had their head spun by a purity spiral usually understands that.

And as you say, others mileage may vary, in which case they should make such efforts as they feel necessary to avoid places they don’t like. Everyone’s a winner.

Well behind everyone else but:

Dr James Barrett of the Gender Identity Clinic stated in his evidence that the only women in prison who would object to Jones are THE SORT OF WOMEN WHO ENJOY CONFLICT.

caught my eye.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/hf73zo/dr_james_barrett_charing_cross_weird_experiences/

@Ereshkigalangcleg

“That means she is in the showers at the same time as other inmates, which some have found quite awkard.

The casual dismissiveness about the humiliation and sexual harassment of those women utterly boils my blood, Talking.

Mine too, Ereshkigal. Mine too.

People stop engaging with this person.
This thread is too important.
Even just a quick look back at this posters history will tell you they are not interested in women's sex based protection. You can't change their mind so just don't engage.
Stick to the topic.

Publicising causes means dealing with a wide variety of platforms and outlets, and anyone who hasn’t had their head spun by a purity spiral usually understands that.

I've been involved in all kinds of campaigns over the years and none would have gone anywhere near a site like brandnewtube. I doubt even the most ardent Tories would have anything to do with it.

@334bu

In Canada 60% of male prisoners applying for transfer to the female estate are sex offenders. If this pattern repeats itself here , the whole pattern of offenders within female prisons will totally change.

That’s absolutely horrific.

But completely unsurprising.

It is not compulsory to respond to whatabouters.

Just saying.

I still can't get my head around why the MOJ defence thought the Equality Act 2010 didn't apply to them.

Can you imagine the uproar if the MoJ had said that the EA 2010 didn't apply to prisoners in relation to the protected characteristic of sexual orientation, or of race? The wholly foreseeable shitstorm is the reason why this would never happen for some of the protected characteristics.

Don't want to derail but just for those who don't know who Jennifer Bilek is, she writes at www.the11thhourblog.com

She follows the money behind queer theory/trans activism and TRAs don't like where it leads. Nor do they like her theories about the agenda behind the rise in the movement.

@theMoJareajoke

People stop engaging with this person. This thread is too important. Even just a quick look back at this posters history will tell you they are not interested in women's sex based protection. You can't change their mind so just don't engage. Stick to the topic.

This.

Is * which some have found quite awkard* journo-speak for "is utterly traumatising and humiliating and probably constitutes cruel and unusual punishment"?

@Datun

Keepprisonssinglesex

Thank you for everything you are doing. And yes, that test is an excellent one.

The desperation of people appropriating everything under the sun to stop women publicising these issues, is a testament to the women who refuse to be intimidated.

Absolutely.

No apparent segregation in the case of the unknown number of people with a GRC (one of which committed a horrific attempted rape because they said they wanted to access the free surgery available through prison - I mean seriously!!)

Whatever the limited segregation in the case of the legally male prisoners without a GRC is - this clearly wasn’t enough to prevent the seven acknowledged rapes/sexual assaults that have happened so far.

Thank you for what you are doing to help the most vulnerable people KPSS - it is horrific that the people we are paying to do this job are so criminally negligent and inadequate that you need to be here (against so much resistance) but well done

It’s interesting that the Karen Jones case was a year before the EA was passed. So at the time there was presumably nothing in law about single sex exemptions? Because obviously when the GRA was drafted there was no concern at all about the impact on women, beyond that of a few brave souls who were shouted down.

Why worry about women after all, when even if they do complain you can just dismiss them as “the sort of women who enjoy conflict”?

What men want, men get.

[quote RozWatching]So basically, the MOJ is insisting that the Equality Act doesn’t apply to women if they are incarcerated (but does to men who identify as women).

It is mystifying.

And why is it that a sex offender can get a gender certificate, but if he says that he is thinking about having his penis removed, he first has to spend two years in the female estate in order to prove that he is serious? It's almost like the gatekeeping is all about safeguarding penises!

Is it an actual policy, or what?
It came up in the Jones case and in the court case of an unnamed paedophile who sued the government (he lost partly because Barrett et al. weren't convinced that his dysphoria didn't have a paraphilic element - didn't stop them from prescribing cross-sex hormones and referring to him as a woman )

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2019/3565.html[/quote]
That case is eye opening!

We have had patients who [“lived as a woman”] quite comfortably when in prison and, on release, detransitioned back to male

I’d be interested in understanding a bit more about what happened there...

the MOJ is insisting that the Equality Act doesn’t apply to women if they are incarcerated (but does to men who identify as women)

Oh, that is chilling. That is exactly what they are doing. Unbelievable.

unwashed thanks for the link. Follow the money would be a a good eyeopener. not looked into it or know much about it.

@Highwind

Can I just point out that it wasn’t just “failure to consider” females, it was an orchestrated and malicious policy to “actively endanger” females.

Does anyone know if by not referring to the Equality Act and thus disregarding women's safety, that the MOJ/gov't could be sued as an accessory or enabler of sexual assaults on the women in prison?

@andyoldlabour

JJ, irrsepective of how they present/identify, no male bodied people should ever be housed in women's prisons.

Rhona Hotchkiss:

"My experience is, that it is always an issue to have transwomen in with female prisoners, I think you have to think beyond the obvious things like physical or sexual threat, which are sometimes an issue, to the very fact of the presence of a male bodied person in amongst vulnerable women causes them distress and consternation."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-51452489/ex-prison-chief-expresses-concern-about-trans-women-in-female-jails