MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Just seen on Twitter.

Will post links

So is it illegal to ask someone their sex? Why can't prisons ask what your biological sex is & whether you are trans? Is that illegal? Genuine question here.

How does it not breach?

In what sense?

I get that they would really like it not to breach, but you can't just state this is so in a court, you kind of have to demonstrate it.

I agree, if only the safe ones go in the women's estate, carefully risk assessed and supervised and they still manage to carry out seven acknowledged sexual assaults on women prisoners....

That's a fair degree of determination to offend really.

And it demonstrates that even with all these precautions, women are still harmed.

You can't really say to those women well we're really sorry if one of the assaults happens to be you, but they're too small a sample for us to be able to do anything and we're doing all we can, and their mental and physical health (having access to you) matters more than your mental and physical health of not being sexually assaulted by them.

Because in effect only the safe ones go into the women's prison and if they are dangerous they are supervised.

That's a contradictory statement.

Also interesting to note the Watchers are about due to the deletions now happening on this thread.

@RaidersoftheLostAardvark

So is it illegal to ask someone their sex? Why can't prisons ask what your biological sex is & whether you are trans? Is that illegal? Genuine question here.

It depends on how you interpret s22 of the GRA2004 status warnings 22Prohibition on disclosure of information

(1)It is an offence for a person who has acquired protected information in an official capacity to disclose the information to any other person.

(2)“Protected information” means information which relates to a person who has made an application under section 1(1) and which—

(a)concerns that application or any application by the person under section [F14A,] [F24C, 4F,] 5(2) [F3, 5A(2)] or 6(1), or

(b)if the application under section 1(1) is granted, otherwise concerns the person’s gender before it becomes the acquired gender.

It is possibly a criminal offence to ask or do anything with the info if you do find out.

However, the S of S does have the power to disapply this and certain exceptions apply. So why it still applies in a prison context is beyond me.

You can't really say to those women well we're really sorry if one of the assaults happens to be you, but they're too small a sample for us to be able to do anything and we're doing all we can, and their mental and physical health (having access to you) matters more than your mental and physical health of not being sexually assaulted by them.

That is exactly the policy but without the sorry.

Discussion on the application of human rights articles. Defence arguing they have not been breached.

While some women might not want to share with transwomen - it should only be about specific transwomen and not transwomen in general.

And there you have it - woman's wants, needs and protections counts for absolutely zero, they are not deemed worthy of consideration at all. Great job Government, you couldn't make your hatred of women and your misogyny any clearer if you tried.

Defence suggesting that the issue is individual TW rather than TW as a class that the Claimant objects to. Therefore, human rights article may not apply.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude thanks- so actually that means that determining the sex of someone who does not have a GRC is not a problem as MoJ claim it is?

The so called safe ones aren’t safe if they need supervision, are they now.

@RedDogsBeg

While some women might not want to share with transwomen - it should only be about specific transwomen and not transwomen in general.

And there you have it - woman's wants, needs and protections counts for absolutely zero, they are not deemed worthy of consideration at all. Great job Government, you couldn't make your hatred of women and your misogyny any clearer if you tried.

They were arguing that the EA doesn't apply to prisons? But here they are talking about discriminating against transwomen, which suggests they do know that the EA applies to them too...

Or am I muddled?

Defence asserts there's no easy answer of where to high risk transwomen should be held. Striking that balance will not please everyone and there have been claims from both sides. /40

Judge Swift sees this as an indirect discrimination case under EA2010. The issue to hand is whether the right balance has been struck /41

Defence says there's no requirement to use the single sex exceptions. /42

Defence asserts there's no easy answer of where to high risk transwomen should be held. Striking that balance will not please everyone and there have been claims from both sides. /40

There is a very easy answer and it is NOT in the female prison estate, or a wing attached to a female prison.

No, there's no easy answer.

There is a duty to find the answer with least harm to all involved.

Which would be third spaces.

But here they are talking about discriminating against transwomen, which suggests they do know that the EA applies to them too...

Yes, didn't MTF prisoner Tara Hudson take them to court a while ago? Presumably on EA gender reassignment grounds? What happened with that?

And I would argue that 'not pleasing' is a bit of an odd way to phrase how a woman may feel about the risk or actual happening of a sexual assault.

They mitigate the risks of having a high risk transwomen with a GRC by putting them in E wing - putting them in the male estate is not the only policy option open to them /

Defence asserts there's no easy answer of where to high risk transwomen should be held. Striking that balance will not please everyone and there have been claims from both sides. /40

Oh I'm sorry you were raped because of our policy. We can't please everyone you know, so just suck it up.

Yes Michelle a completely separate prison for Trans Prisoners that is the easy and simple solution, it would meet the needs of those prisoners as it would be cater for them specifically. (But of course that doesn't fit the Validation Protocol).

It's appalling.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

But here they are talking about discriminating against transwomen, which suggests they do know that the EA applies to them too...

Yes, didn't MTF prisoner Tara Hudson take them to court a while ago? Presumably on EA gender reassignment grounds? What happened with that?

I may be wrong but I thought I read somewhere Tara Hudson lost that case.

I must be missing something here regarding them knowing how many TW they have. I thought someone who transitions need to take drugs for life. Surely prisoners don't have access to their own supply in their cells so these drugs must be ordered administered somehow? (who pays for this!?) They will then know. Sorry if I am being thick here.

Defence asserts there's no easy answer of where to high risk transwomen should be held. Striking that balance will not please everyone and there have been claims from both sides. /40

There's an easy answer, and a logical answer. But Stonewall wouldn't like it.

I’m sure if a special prison specifically for tw prisoners was established the demand would suddenly diminish.