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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex in the Census 2021 website launched; 3 part action plan

115 replies

ConservativesForWomen · 21/02/2021 10:01

sexinthecensus.org

"The census has always asked “What is your sex”?
We believe that people should answer the census accurately and honestly.
We think that this is the best way to collect the information needed to understand the population and to plan and fund public services.
Counting the number of male and female citizens is vital for the census, and because the census sets the standard for other data-collection across society."

The website has a 3 stage action plan, a comprehensive set of FAQs, and a useful resources section that provides more background.
15 groups collaborated on this campaign and clicking on their logos on the home page takes you direct to the individual website of each organisation.

Hope some of you find it useful.

OP posts:
FindTheTruth · 21/02/2021 10:07

Ooooh thanks OP.

have been waiting for this

MichelleofzeResistance · 21/02/2021 10:07

Thank you!

FindTheTruth · 21/02/2021 10:09

Oh. just looked at it. I thought we were getting steps to take to send a message and it would be launched today?

gardenbird48 · 21/02/2021 10:12

@FindTheTruth

Oh. just looked at it. I thought we were getting steps to take to send a message and it would be launched today?
It’s in the faqs
MichelleofzeResistance · 21/02/2021 10:16

There are three clear steps and the dates to take them given on the site. This seems to me a very good way to respond without putting women at risk of fines or convictions for daring to suggest there are fucking major issues here.

SirSamuelVimes · 21/02/2021 10:17

Placemark for later, thanks op.

FindTheTruth · 21/02/2021 10:19

Thanks @gardenbird48

NonnyMouse1337 · 21/02/2021 10:26

Fantastic website. Very clear instructions. I hope it gets a lot of publicity.

Good model for Scotland if the NRS here insists on going with the self-id route next year.

ConservativesForWomen · 21/02/2021 10:35

You can take action IMMEDIATELY

sexinthecensus.org/do-it-now/

Sex in the Census 2021 website launched; 3 part action plan
OP posts:
Olderstyle1 · 21/02/2021 10:54

Brilliant. Thanks to all the groups that have made this happen. Special shout out to @MerchedCymru from a fan!

MerchedCymru · 21/02/2021 12:15

Excellent, very comprehensive and well laid out....(no surprise really, its written by women for women!). Whether you are part of the 15 grassroot groups organising this action, or doing so as an individual this is worth a look.

Just a reminder - 'the Sex in the Census campaign is NOT a boycott of the census but asks people to request a paper copy of the census and return it with a letter that will ask the ONS to confirm that they will only record the respondent’s sex as “sex registered at birth”.
The group is calling for the mandatory sex question to clearly and accurately count men and women based on sex'.

We are not challenging the voluntary “gender identity” question.

Meanwhile, Fair Play for Women plans to challenge the ONS in court, stating it is for Parliament not the ONS to decide the census questions.

Please share with other women as well as with dads, brothers, blokes in general, everyone has their part to part in this.

sexinthecensus.org/

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/02/2021 13:36

So this 'action' is just 'fill in the census'? Hmm

stillamum22 · 21/02/2021 14:36

@TheShadowyFeminist

So this 'action' is just 'fill in the census'? Hmm
Hiya, have you had a chance to read the info yet? There's a few different parts, some FAQ to arm ourselves with the facts, writing speaking to your MP, ordering the paper copy of the census vegining of March and how to complete it. More info and guidance than I had before today.

Did you have any other thoughts?

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/02/2021 15:06

Is what I've said wrong? Is the action here 'complete the census' or something else?

How exactly does that 'send a message' that will persuade the ONS or the courts that in compromising the integrity of the sex data being gathered, they risk compromising the whole exercise? The answer to that Q effectively says 'no, there's no risk, here's the campaign challenging our decision confirming that this campaign isn't going to cause any other issues, and have we explained how insignificant this decision is blah blah blah'.

This is a nonsense 'campaign' & isn't any risk whatsoever to the census or the ONS in defending their decision in court.

JaninaDuszejko · 21/02/2021 15:37

I emailed my MP about this issue. I did not question the inclusion of the gender ID question, I purely concentrated on the sex question and how it had to reflect biological reality. We have a new male Tory MP who replaced an excellent female Labour MP who had always responded thoughtfully about trans issues.

Here's his answer (completely missing my point):

Dear XX,

Thank you for contacting me about the new question on gender identity in the 2021 Census.
I am glad that the 2021 Census will be the most inclusive to date and aims to collect results that reflects our society as it is today. The Office for National Statistics' (ONS) work on new questions has been informed by extensive consultation, research and engagement. New questions or response options are only included after research and consultation that provide compelling evidence for their inclusion. The new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will allow as yet unknown numbers of LGBT citizens, as well as those who have transitioned their gender identity, the chance to be recognised in official statistics. This is a huge step forward for the LGBT people of this country.
It is important to note that the question on gender identity is voluntary, as the Census will state, and will be collected in addition to the question on sex. There are currently no official figures for those who identify their gender as different from the sex registered at birth, so this approach will produce better quality data for equality monitoring and means that public services can be planned and provided better. ONS' research and consultation showed that there is a clear need for information on gender identity in order to support policy development and service provision, as well as advancing equality in this country.
I believe the Census questions mark a key distinction between sex and gender identity, and believe the way the two questions are posed will allow reliable data to be collected on both topics. I am confident that the new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will show officially the welcome scale of diversity that exists in our society, and I do not agree that this will be at the detriment of other groups.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact me and if I can ever be any further assistance to you then please do not hesitate to contact me again.
Yours sincerely
Tory MP

PaleBlueMoonlight · 21/02/2021 15:51

Have you replied Janina?

FindTheTruth · 21/02/2021 15:52

@JaninaDuszejko

I emailed my MP about this issue. I did not question the inclusion of the gender ID question, I purely concentrated on the sex question and how it had to reflect biological reality. We have a new male Tory MP who replaced an excellent female Labour MP who had always responded thoughtfully about trans issues.

Here's his answer (completely missing my point):

Dear XX,

Thank you for contacting me about the new question on gender identity in the 2021 Census.
I am glad that the 2021 Census will be the most inclusive to date and aims to collect results that reflects our society as it is today. The Office for National Statistics' (ONS) work on new questions has been informed by extensive consultation, research and engagement. New questions or response options are only included after research and consultation that provide compelling evidence for their inclusion. The new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will allow as yet unknown numbers of LGBT citizens, as well as those who have transitioned their gender identity, the chance to be recognised in official statistics. This is a huge step forward for the LGBT people of this country.
It is important to note that the question on gender identity is voluntary, as the Census will state, and will be collected in addition to the question on sex. There are currently no official figures for those who identify their gender as different from the sex registered at birth, so this approach will produce better quality data for equality monitoring and means that public services can be planned and provided better. ONS' research and consultation showed that there is a clear need for information on gender identity in order to support policy development and service provision, as well as advancing equality in this country.
I believe the Census questions mark a key distinction between sex and gender identity, and believe the way the two questions are posed will allow reliable data to be collected on both topics. I am confident that the new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will show officially the welcome scale of diversity that exists in our society, and I do not agree that this will be at the detriment of other groups.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact me and if I can ever be any further assistance to you then please do not hesitate to contact me again.
Yours sincerely
Tory MP

hmm. ok. so we need a dumbed down version for the stupid MPs. honestly, there should be an IQ test before people can stand for office.
chillied · 21/02/2021 15:59

The action isn't just 'fill.in the census.

There are instructions what to write next to the question on a paper copy of the form, and then to post it with a letter (proforma to be added to the website) which objects to the way they are handling your data. Presumably the more people do this the more the message is heard.

JaninaDuszejko · 21/02/2021 16:02

@PaleBlueMoonlight

Have you replied Janina?
Not yet. That's todays job.
Terfy · 21/02/2021 16:03

What if we ticked off the male and female box? If sex is irrelevant, let the ONS choose what it is??

VexedofVirginiaWater · 21/02/2021 16:06

@JaninaDuszejko

I emailed my MP about this issue. I did not question the inclusion of the gender ID question, I purely concentrated on the sex question and how it had to reflect biological reality. We have a new male Tory MP who replaced an excellent female Labour MP who had always responded thoughtfully about trans issues.

Here's his answer (completely missing my point):

Dear XX,

Thank you for contacting me about the new question on gender identity in the 2021 Census.
I am glad that the 2021 Census will be the most inclusive to date and aims to collect results that reflects our society as it is today. The Office for National Statistics' (ONS) work on new questions has been informed by extensive consultation, research and engagement. New questions or response options are only included after research and consultation that provide compelling evidence for their inclusion. The new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will allow as yet unknown numbers of LGBT citizens, as well as those who have transitioned their gender identity, the chance to be recognised in official statistics. This is a huge step forward for the LGBT people of this country.
It is important to note that the question on gender identity is voluntary, as the Census will state, and will be collected in addition to the question on sex. There are currently no official figures for those who identify their gender as different from the sex registered at birth, so this approach will produce better quality data for equality monitoring and means that public services can be planned and provided better. ONS' research and consultation showed that there is a clear need for information on gender identity in order to support policy development and service provision, as well as advancing equality in this country.
I believe the Census questions mark a key distinction between sex and gender identity, and believe the way the two questions are posed will allow reliable data to be collected on both topics. I am confident that the new voluntary questions about gender identity and sexual orientation will show officially the welcome scale of diversity that exists in our society, and I do not agree that this will be at the detriment of other groups.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact me and if I can ever be any further assistance to you then please do not hesitate to contact me again.
Yours sincerely
Tory MP

Did he even read your email at all? I would reply to him quoting this part of his letter

there are currently no official figures for those who identify their gender as different from the sex registered at birth, so this approach will produce better quality data for equality monitoring and means that public services can be planned and provided better.

and tell him that it certainly won't produce better quality data because it won't record who identifies their gender as different from their birth sex as they are being directed to record their sex as how they identify from documents which can be changed - sometimes just on request. The only document they should consult really should be their original birth certificate. Now if they gave their sex as recorded at birth and then their gender id - that would produce more accurate figures.

I am part-way through drafting an email to my MP - I don't want to meet with her as suggested in the template letter, I just want to get my point across. Reading your MP's reply has helped me.

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/02/2021 16:13

"Presumably the more people do this the more the message is heard."

The message has been getting hammered for quite some time & not had any impact. Action would, but this 'campaign' does not advocate any action, just 'fill the census' while writing (as demonstrated below) to MPs who easily/wilfully misinterpret or ignore those letters.

This census, once it goes ahead (especially with women filling it in as suggested) we won't get the integrity back. It'll open the floodgates across so many areas to completely disregard the PSED to gather data on sex & it makes any future campaigning 10 times harder because the 'gold standard' on data has by then confirmed that data on sex is superfluous & won't be collected for at least the next 10 years.

Faced with those consequences, I cannot believe that the big reveal on the 'co-ordinated action' is just 'fill the census in' and add a strongly worded letter that will be ignored/binned & nothing gained.

It also does nothing for any court case/JR being challenged by FPFW.

It's a toothless & empty gesture, not worth the dramatic build up. It's admitting defeat & trans activists will be pissing themselves at this.

HubertHerbert · 21/02/2021 16:28

What do you suggest then

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/02/2021 16:36

Boycott. Nothing less will have any real impact.

At what point does it become clearer that the loss of the integrity of the census is as serious as it gets in terms of how significant the impact across so many areas will be.

It's like there's simply no appetite to either get serious or show solidarity to make the prosecution of 1000's of women as difficult as possible.

But then, I'm not a 'leader' with a stake in monetising women's concerns am I? They'll happily take our cash, but not even contemplate disruption tactics when it gets to the crunch.

TheShadowyFeminist · 21/02/2021 16:45

Anything that was actually radical or potentially disruptive was already being labelled as 'anti-trans' by women heavily involved in the groups who have co-ordinated this 'campaign'. It was never going to be hard hitting, radical, or in any way disruptive to the point of illustrating the collective strength women can have.

At the very least there should be legal action but it's heading into court with one hand tied behind its back when the 'collective action' is compliance with a strongly worded letter.