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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex in the Census 2021 website launched; 3 part action plan

115 replies

ConservativesForWomen · 21/02/2021 10:01

sexinthecensus.org

"The census has always asked “What is your sex”?
We believe that people should answer the census accurately and honestly.
We think that this is the best way to collect the information needed to understand the population and to plan and fund public services.
Counting the number of male and female citizens is vital for the census, and because the census sets the standard for other data-collection across society."

The website has a 3 stage action plan, a comprehensive set of FAQs, and a useful resources section that provides more background.
15 groups collaborated on this campaign and clicking on their logos on the home page takes you direct to the individual website of each organisation.

Hope some of you find it useful.

OP posts:
AnyOldPrion · 01/03/2021 11:56

There was a groundswell of anger to be built upon & it's being squandered.

I am as frustrated as a few other posters about the fact that this campaign lacks teeth. I think there might have been an argument for boycotting, or (as an example) all women registrering their sex as female and gender identity as male.

But the reality is that the extreme and obviously deliberate lateness of their announcement (remember, it was falsely reported in the Times a few weeks earlier that sex was to be recorded correctly - presumably also a false leak) has meant that there has been very little time for discussion.

More time would have allowed for the thrashing out of various possibilities, the potential effects, and an estimation of potential numbers of women willing to take part.

For example, if only a few women boycotted, then prosecution and fines are more likely to be chased up. Had we known 100,000 women were willing to take part, then there would have been safety in numbers.

As another possible example, it was suggested women should register as men. It was pointed out that this would skew the figures and thus potentially affect women’s funding. Given time, we could have assessed whether enough women were willing to go ahead so as to skew the figures so far that it would be obvious they were inaccurate and therefore must be recounted or abandoned.

The idea of recording sex as female and gender identity as male didn’t come up, as far as I know. It might have been a better way to make it obvious the figures were skewed, but again discussion of potential impacts was necessary.

We have been left with no time to plan and it is perfectly obvious that was deliberate. It would be interesting to know whether FOI requests might be possible to reveal just how deliberate it was. From the outside it looks very coordinated indeed.

Anyway, frustrating as it is, mass letter writing campaigns have had an impact before, I understand, as if they are large enough, they make an impression that is hard to ignore entirely.

Ordering a paper copy is hopefully an inconvenience to them, though as paper has been routine until this census, they likely have good provision for it this time (might have had more impact had online been the standard for years).

I don’t think there’s any point in criticism of the women’s groups who have had to throw together last minute campaigns that are bland enough to ensure everyone will feel able to carry out the actions. They are doing the best they can with the resources they have.

All anger should be directed at the ONS. They are the ones who have shafted women with a deliberacy that ought to concern anyone sane. We don’t have to sort this out before the census. They will still be there afterwards and if we can find out what they did, then a stink can still be created, even if the census itself cannot be undone.

Leafstamp · 01/03/2021 12:28

@TheShadowyFeminist

I do see where you're coming from, but how come FPFW's lawyers think they have a case and think that spending £90k on it is worth it? Do you know something they don't or are your just voicing your opinion?

Leafstamp · 01/03/2021 12:31

a stink can still be created, even if the census itself cannot be undone.

Hear hear

Leafstamp · 01/03/2021 12:33

[quote Leafstamp]**@TheShadowyFeminist

I do see where you're coming from, but how come FPFW's lawyers think they have a case and think that spending £90k on it is worth it? Do you know something they don't or are your just voicing your opinion?[/quote]
Sorry, this was in reply to a post from a while ago, I misread and thought it was a recent one. Feel free to ignore @TheShadowyFeminist Smile

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2021 12:51

I actually do think this paper copy and letter plan is worth doing. I think it will send a message to the ONS if lots of people request paper copies as they will want as many people to complete online as possible.

I also think that an FOI on the ONS decision making meetings where this issue was discussed would be a good idea.

alreadytaken · 01/03/2021 13:52

When asked about gender I tend to write something like this is an artificial concept created by misogynists. Anyone got a better response?

chillied · 02/03/2021 08:25

[quote Leafstamp]Thanks for the reminder @NonnyMouse1337. Just ordered my paper copy. I await a response from my MP, but I got a promising acknowledgement.

Can I also add, if anyone who sees this isn’t already aware of the campaign by FPFW, and the update yesterday, please have a read here and consider picking up a spade if you’re able to.

fairplayforwomen.com/census-dirty-tricks-wont-stop-us/[/quote]
This deserves a bump, as it's after pay day... and it only runs until tomorrow

SirSamuelVimes · 02/03/2021 08:32

Just ordered my paper copy.

Also had a little dig for FPFW yesterday. Not much as very financially fucked due to Covid unfortunately.

butwhatcanwedo · 02/03/2021 08:33

Done, thanks for the reminder.

2Rebecca · 02/03/2021 08:46

Is this census the whole of the UK or just England as there was talk of a Scottish census and I'm not sure if this is an additional one.

NonnyMouse1337 · 02/03/2021 10:04

@2Rebecca

Is this census the whole of the UK or just England as there was talk of a Scottish census and I'm not sure if this is an additional one.
2Rebecca this census is for England and Wales.

Scotland's census will be next year, but any development around the English and Welsh census will influence the one in Scotland.

alreadytaken · 02/03/2021 16:00

A friend once claimed to identify as a potato - perhaps any question about gender could be answered in that way, rather than claiming to be men?

peak2021 · 04/03/2021 13:02

Just ordered paper copy- very simple process to do so.

SorryAuntLydia · 04/03/2021 17:31

Bumping this important thread

Angelwings77 · 04/03/2021 17:38

I had a paper copy arrive in the post today and I didn't ask for one to be sent (I'd planned on waiting to the last minute to ask) so are they randomly posting paper copies anyway?

SorryAuntLydia · 04/03/2021 17:42

@Angelwings77

I had a paper copy arrive in the post today and I didn't ask for one to be sent (I'd planned on waiting to the last minute to ask) so are they randomly posting paper copies anyway?
How strange. Maybe someone knows you are a secret GC feminist Grin
Gurufloof · 04/03/2021 18:11

I just tried to order paper ones but there seems to be a limit, anyone know how many I can order online? I planned for 15 or so women in this house and another 11 in another house I own. Will happily phone and order more if it's a paltry limit online.

Angelwings77 · 04/03/2021 18:29

SorryAuntLydia
How strange. Maybe someone knows you are a secret GC feminist

I didn't see it until my gc DD had opened it and declared 'fuck that don't put me on it I'll sleep in the stables that night' and my gc DP had flicked through it and said 'just write FUCK OFF across every page, I'd rather pay the fine'
Maybe they do know after all Grin

Xanthangum · 04/03/2021 18:36

an FOI on the ONS decision making meetings where this issue was discussed would be a good idea.

Hear hear

SirSamuelVimes · 04/03/2021 18:37

@Angelwings77

SorryAuntLydia How strange. Maybe someone knows you are a secret GC feminist

I didn't see it until my gc DD had opened it and declared 'fuck that don't put me on it I'll sleep in the stables that night' and my gc DP had flicked through it and said 'just write FUCK OFF across every page, I'd rather pay the fine'
Maybe they do know after all Grin

I like the sound of your DP Grin
Olderstyle1 · 04/03/2021 19:13

Just met up online with some terfy friends and we have agreed to follow the campaign plan since, as others have said, if enough of us do so it will create waves (albeit small ones) and will get media coverage.

Some of us will be adding a local suffragette's name to the 'Visitor' section; some will decorating the neighbourhood with purple, white and green ribbons + sex in the census stickers; some of us have more dubious intentions. And we have all committed to persuade at least two other households to take part in the campaign.

Every push-back, however small, against the erosion of biological reality has got to be better than screaming in to the void.

RaidersoftheLostAardvark · 04/03/2021 19:56

I appear to be too late to assist with this FPFW appeal - is there a way of supporting them directly? I can't find a link on their website, can you only assist via specific campaigns?

Gurufloof · 04/03/2021 21:31

As per my previous post, I've managed to order 4 for one house and 5 for the other. Gonna be a lot of women in these houses.

aliasundercover · 04/03/2021 21:39

I just filled mine in online. The gender for the gender question I ticked 'no' (eg I don't have the same gender I was born with) and wrote in the box: I do not understand what gender means.

It'll probably just count as a 'no', and it was a bit pointless, but I couldn't think of another honest way to answer.

Olderstyle1 · 04/03/2021 21:50

You can add a 'sex not gender' comment in the free text box alias - they'll ignore that too but it's still better than nowt.

Raiders I think it's too late to donate to that campaign but there will be others! Please participate in this SexintheCensus campaign in the meanwhile - FPFW are supporting it as part of the general pushback.

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