Q&A thread for New Posters

[CharlieParley]

Welcome to the FWR board and welcome to the debate. If you're new here and have been told your questions might be better on their own thread, but you're not comfortable starting your own, then please feel free to ask your question here.

I'll try my best to answer and some of our other regulars might pop in too.

@TinyCake

Hi me again sorry. The gender/sex thing has sent me off one load of what ifs. So you can't actually change sex just gender but statistics confuse the two so why don't they just ask gender if that is what they want to know. Also if anyone has any good links on the whole gender vs sex thing I'd like to do some more reading.

That's the bait and switch, or smoke and mirrors. It's all about gender identity, but then all the rights that must be ceded are sex based.

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

I keep seeing the Twitter people saying that radical feminists and gender critical women are bio essentialists who want men and women to be 1950s stereotypes based on their birth sex, whereas trans allies want people to break out of those stereotypes. Is this a correct characterisation of gender critical views?

When you realise that trans allies are not helping people break out of gender boxes it's a penny dropping moment.

They are cementing them. If a man feels a certain way, he must be a woman. Which means that women, all of them, feel a certain way, or dress a certain way or behave a certain way or think in a certain way.

It's cementing gender stereotypes.

You think like that?? You must be a woman!

And when you realise that gender stereotypes are designed to keep women as lesser than, suppprt humans, the misogyny leaps off the page.

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

Why do I see many more lesbians being gender critical than gay men?

Because there are a lot more trans women trying to persuade lesbians that they should sleep with them and their 'lady penises' than there are trans men trying to get gay men to sleep with them and their 'man vaginas'. Because, yet again, it's more men hounding women.

Thanks for answering these questions, I feel I understand the debates a lot better now

Do all trans people believe they are actually the opposite sex after hormones and surgery and thus should be treated exactly the same as people of the opposite sex?

I seem to recall it used to be one of the criteria for medical changes that the person understood they can't actually change sex. Presumably that has changed?

@StellaAndCrow

Random question. When did hair length start being used as a gender marker? When I was at school (70/80s) half the girls in my class had short hair, half long. It seems different now, girls with short hair get asked if they are non-binary.

Same here. Short hair on girls was completely normal.

Maybe when consumerism took off massively? And retailers realised they could sell parents two of everything, instead of one. One pink, one blue. And 'gender' became marketable.

Is JK Rowling transphobic?

What's with the boycotts? Why do MN FWR users take against some brands? Why do people post about "potato" on boycott threads?

Recipes. Why so many on this board? There's a weird thing about Weetabix too. What's the story?

Do gender critical transpeople exist and post here?

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

Why do I see many more lesbians being gender critical than gay men?

Interestingly I have seen an increasing number of gay men start to speak out about what is happening to women. My male gay friends are all on board - we've been discussing this for years so they were alerted to all the threats (by me) from an early stage and recognise them when they see them. Sadly there's a group of very powerful gay males in politics (those in receipt of all the awards and hospitality from lobby groups) who enable a lot of this at a political level.

@StellaAndCrow

Random question. When did hair length start being used as a gender marker? When I was at school (70/80s) half the girls in my class had short hair, half long. It seems different now, girls with short hair get asked if they are non-binary.

I'd like an answer to this one as well. It really baffles me for the same reason. Lots of older women have short hair even now. Why is short hair a gender marker on a girl or young woman, but not on a woman of 60? Is it just because older women are invisible anyway?

But I don't see long hair on men as a gender marker either. Lots of men in the 70s and 80s had long hair. When did long hair on men become a sign of anything other than that they like having long hair?

@MildlyIrritatedOfChorley

Do gender critical transpeople exist and post here?

Yes, there are quite a few who might be so described, and some have posted here. But by and large they seem to be respectful of this being a feminism board. I linked to the petitions board upthread, there's a thread on there about 'third spaces' from some of them.

Not a new poster but this Q keeps going around in my head: if this forum is so 'notoriously transphobic', why are such a high % of the posts from trans people? Why are they seeking out a space they think is out to 'get them'? Or is this just anti-feminist propaganda?

What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist? Feels like that should be a joke

Then we have a Scottish government minister saying this. That TWAW and that’s the law.

So just to confirm a Scottish government minister said the trans women are women and that’s the law

I have been told that in one of the states in America they passed a law stating that pi = 3.

(May not be true, but it does seem like a reasonable comparison.)

Possibly something like this?

vimeo.com/277513964

@notyourhandmaid

Not a new poster but this Q keeps going around in my head: if this forum is so 'notoriously transphobic', why are such a high % of the posts from trans people? Why are they seeking out a space they think is out to 'get them'? Or is this just anti-feminist propaganda?

I think some of them they feel they can shame the posters who are posting about women’s rights and the impact of the rights those posters are demanding.

And there must be a certain appeal to thinking they can influence readers. I don’t know. When I was lurking, some of those posters stood out because they simply refused to engage and back up with information to refute what was being posted. Now a couple (certainly not all) of male posters seem clear from the misogyny of their posts and they seem to have a distinct lack of regard for safeguarding issues as well.

What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist?

Great question! Although US-centric and I'm not sure I agree with all of the history (I think that RF is at the basis of CF) this is a great intro.

The Lib Fem position advocated is 'old style' lib feminism. At the end, they talk about 'I-Feminism' (not a common term AFAIK), but this seems a pretty good summing up of modern liberal feminism.

www.uah.edu/woolf/feminism_kinds.htm

@Anovaneway

The fact that people come and post such, frankly cruel, shit. And think they're making a great point. I mean Jesus it's outragous.

I didn’t blame anyone for anything. Except the criminals. The fact that some men are criminals doesn’t mean I think it’s ok to stop post operative trans women from using women’s toilets.

But go ahead and report my post and your little mole will no doubt have a look behind the scenes and let you know outside mumsnet whether I have other name changes. I can see how this works. Interesting.

"The fact that some men are criminals doesn’t mean I think it’s ok to stop post operative trans women from using women’s toilets."

So you would welcome JY (post-op) into the women's toilets but not Blaire White, who is "intact"?

Not caught up.

Old school/ second wave / radicalfeminists tend to focus on structural oppression. That women have been oppressed the world over for as long as we know. And link things up which are seen as detrimental to women and girls as all coming from the same root. (Radical meaning from the root).

Liberal feminism says let's chip away and work within the current structures. Generally seems to go with. We're in a shit place but let's make the most of it and look for small changes. Seems to have been corrupted. Starting with girl power (I was in my early 20s when spice girls hit and yes they had a different message!). In the end it's about trying to find 'power' within man built structures and is weak. Men are empowered by having power. Women are empowered by taking their clothes off. Gok wan, pole dancing, slut walk etc.

I'm biased though

I mean the latter is a shit ton easier so, you know.

I don't have any issues with women doing whatever to get by.

Patriarchy is the problem. Power for women = being hot.

Handily it puts all those older women who aren't scared of saying this is shit, out of the picture as well.

All the ooh empowered women who are bigger older in their pants and bastard. Bras and they're all good looking... Meh. Fuck off dove.

[quote YetAnotherSpartacus]What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist?

Great question! Although US-centric and I'm not sure I agree with all of the history (I think that RF is at the basis of CF) this is a great intro.

The Lib Fem position advocated is 'old style' lib feminism. At the end, they talk about 'I-Feminism' (not a common term AFAIK), but this seems a pretty good summing up of modern liberal feminism.

www.uah.edu/woolf/feminism_kinds.htm[/quote]
I'd say basically lib-fems include women and anyone who identifies as a woman (TW also then) but GC feminists (which are more rad-fem even if we don't think of ourselves as "radical") centre women in feminism.
I suspect the inclusion of TW in liberal feminism is relatively new and they feel it's very progressive etc. but it must be bloody exhausting if any of the TW they include are actually TRAs. Everything is always about them.