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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Solidarity in Aldi today!

583 replies

JaneyHenderson · 13/02/2021 18:08

This is my first thread in a very long time but I wanted to share the uplifting and fabulous experience I had today in Aldi😂

I reached 'peak' during the last lockdown and lurk regularly on here while trying to make sense of the madness.
DH is supportive to a degree but very nervous of me being vocal about my GC views as we are both teachers. I am a middle leader in a secondary school and he worries about me getting sackedConfused
So I can't discuss this much IRL.

Anyway, queing outside Aldi today and saw a woman a few people ahead of me with a 'Woman
Noun
adult human female' tote bag. I was thrilled and as soon as there was an opportunity (by the fruit and vegWink) I told her I liked her bag and that I knew what it meant.
She said I had made her day; I replied I she had made mine. Then she said 'Solidarity sister and see you on the next march'
We went on our separate ways but bloody hell it was brilliant. To vocalise it and be recognised. Felt a bit emotional and even now re-writing it, am a bit teary.

Just wanted to share. It was wonderful.

OP posts:
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NativityDreaming · 13/02/2021 23:44

There is a framing shop near where I used to love that has the saying in a frame in his front window display. It used to make me smile every time I walked by.

Hatia · 13/02/2021 23:53

Smallgoon

Why cringe? Do share.

DeaconBoo · 13/02/2021 23:58

I haven't seen one of these in the wild! But then no-one's going out much at the moment...!

FamilyOfAliens · 13/02/2021 23:58

Why cringe? Do share.

No, please don’t. Anyone who thinks putting a hashtag in front of a single word is a mature way to contribute to an online discussion needs to try much, much harder.

Mrsmorton · 14/02/2021 00:00

@FamilyOfAliens fair one. I need to raise my sights.

I did Guerilla stickering at work but it got removed... plus I'm one of 4 women in an organisation of about 60 so I worry I'll be outed if I go again.

FamilyOfAliens · 14/02/2021 00:02

Also, whoever asked if Aldi has an aisle of crap, they do indeed.

It’s called the wtf aisle Grin

funnelfanjo · 14/02/2021 00:03

Thanks for this thread. I’ve had some cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile my opinions on issues discussed here, and this has helped crystallise my thoughts.

It seems that I am indeed GC. I truly believe that everyone should have the same opportunities in life, and matters like who you love and marry, your education and career choices, what you wear, your hobbies and interests should not be dictated by your genitals or genetics. We should be fighting to have a society where everyone should be treated with dignity and respect, and no one should be judged for conforming or not conforming to gender stereotyping, which is all patriarchal bollocks anyway.

What I could never reconcile is the opinions of men transitioning to women proclaiming their issues to be women’s issues the same as mine. They have their own issues which need addressing so they don’t face discrimination and harassment and get the same dignity and respect everyone is entitled to. But they are not the same issues I have faced as a woman throughout my life when I have been harassed or discriminated against.

I think it also explains my feelings around Eddie Izzard’s decision that they are now transgender and to identify as a woman. I love Eddie, have always admired the attitude of “I am a man, but I want to wear women’s clothes and makeup. So what”, plus being very funny. I felt a bit let down when Eddie decided to transition, and couldn’t work out why as it wasn’t my body or my business. I’m getting an inkling now of why it bothered me. It seemed like Eddie was GC, but not any more.

I’ve always avoided this topic as it seemed too hard to work out where I stood, but I’m now motivated to go and read the Break It Down for me thread. Thanks.

Wearywithteens · 14/02/2021 00:04

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the poster's request.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 14/02/2021 00:05

@PCar20

What did you love about it? Sorry, this is a genuine question. I often don’t understand the posts on the feminism board and am trying to learn
For anyone who is still in the dark about what all this means, as there are clearly quite a few posters who’ve come in from Active and are new to the Feminism board...

There is currently an ideological civil war raging in the western world.

One side (Trans Rights Activists) maintains that whether you're a woman or a man has nothing whatsoever to do with biological sex and is wholly dependent on your inner “gender identity”. Thus a visibly biologically male person, intact in all respects, must be acknowledged as a woman and treated as a woman (ie referred to as if female and allowed access to all women only spaces and services) if that person claims to have the inner gender identity of a woman.
(But no one has been able to provide a coherent definition of what this woman gender identity actually is, or how to measure it or evaluate it.)

This ideology seeks to completely erase the distinction between so-called “cis women” (ie women) and “trans women” (ie biologically male people who identify as women), saying both are equally “women”: “Trans Women Are Women” is one of their slogans.

The other side, Gender Critical Feminists, says that whether you are a woman or a man is contingent purely on your biological sex.We say (I’m GC, obvs, although as others have said, it’s a broad church and we don’t all agree on everything) that the terms woman and man don’t specify or proscribe any type of personality traits or preferences: they don’t tell us who you are as a person, just which sex you are. Neutral, objective, terms rooted in observable material reality. Hence using the dictionary definition of the word woman - adult human female - as a slogan.

And we say it’s important to know this as people of the female sex are relatively vulnerable compared to people of the male sex, in that we have less physical strength of the brute force kind, we can be impregnated, and despite the recent gains of feminism in some parts of the world, women are still routinely discriminated against on the basis of their sex in many other places, and even here we are still fighting back against the huge historical disadvantage that has built up over countless generations of male dominance.

These are the two factions. TRAs have got the upper hand at the moment as they started assembling their forces on the quiet and built up a lot of support over a couple of decades - in the government, all the major political parties, the NHS, the police, the media, the CPS, schools, universities, the corporate world etc etc - long before most people had a clue what was going on.

But there is a growing resistance, led in the UK mainly by left leaning feminists, and some conservative feminists too, who see this as an attack on women’s and girls’ rights, on the safeguarding of children, on free speech, and on the fundamentals of a rational society. There are currently quite a few legal battles being fought, all crowdfunded, and what campaigning groups there are are grassroots feminist/LGB/child protection groups set up and run by volunteers.

The numerous TRA orgs OTOH are well established now and receive a fair bit of taxpayer funding, and are paid to go into schools and workplaces all over the UK to promote their ideology. It’s all rather David and Goliath.

I think of it as being like the forces of the Empire vs the Rebel Alliance in the Star Wars films. Only the TRAs say that we are the bad guys and they are the goodies. Women risk losing their jobs for speaking out against transgenderist ideology; we have been and are threatened with violence, with prosecution, with social ostracism as “hateful bigots” for our position, and have had to meet up in secret and in an atmosphere of huge fear in order to make connections and start to fight back. Women are routinely banned from Twitter and FB for saying that a biologically male person is a man; MN is one of the very few places this can even be discussed (TRAs have tried to block any debate around it: literally, with the hashtag #NoDebate), and even on here there are strict guidelines around what can and cannot be said.

Hence why it’s such a big deal to come across another woman you don’t know wearing an AHF t-shirt or carrying an AHF bag in public. It’s a sign of being on the same side, a marginalised minority that is fighting back against a really sinister and covert form of male oppression. Also an act of courage, in the current climate - you never know if you’ll come across a TRA who will actually punch you just for wearing/carrying it, as they so often threaten to do on Twitter.

This is why it’s a glorious moment of solidarity to unexpectedly come across a kindred spirit.

HTH.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 14/02/2021 00:07

Sorry if I’m repeating what’s already been said!! Sloooow at typing!!

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 14/02/2021 00:09

@Huckleberries73

I flipping love this ❤️❤️❤️
Me too 😊😊😊
Winesalot · 14/02/2021 00:12

This board is great for sorting out where you stand. I think because there is many who jump on and call the feminist boards all kinds of phobic, people are left feeling they are alone.

But really, this isn’t a hive mind at all. There are nuances to everyone’s understanding and boundaries on this issue.

It is one issue that covers so many areas that until you get your head around it, it seems a small issue. That is what many people want to believe or want others to believe.

And on these threads you will see activists in real time and a lot of the time you will be able to see exactly where they are coming from and that helps enormously.

Mockolate · 14/02/2021 00:21

Another one wears an I ❤ JK Rowling shirt because she loves JK Rowling, was asked about it once unpleasantly and told the school friend she didn't need anyone's permission to wear a t-shirt.

See, that's just it, isn't it.
You have this, your daughter, wearing a t-shirt because she loves JK Rowling, no other reason.
Fair enough if so.
Then you have other people wearing it to dogwhistle to others
I have the "I ❤️ JK Rowling" tote bag and use it daily. It has a number of lovely GC badges on it too. Would love to spot a fellow realist out and about
Oh so innocent, but I just love JK Rowling!" you usually see on here, aye, OK then?! Hmm
Same with wide eyed innocently "but women are adult human females, whatever do you mean?"
Kind of falls down that's all it ever means when you get people solidarity sistering! in the middle of Aldi and feeling all teary when someone "gets" them.

RagzReturnsRebooted · 14/02/2021 00:23

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

Standing for Women’s hoodies are very cosy, and have a convenient pocket for stickers.

There’s no feeling like coming across a sticker that you weren’t responsible for!

Can someone explain the Thought Criminal one and who the Emily is that the description references?
Mrsmorton · 14/02/2021 00:26

@Mockolate umm. Are you ok? Your post is a bit of a ramble. Maybe use some bullet points?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2021 00:28

Can someone explain the Thought Criminal one and who the Emily is that the description references?

Emily was arrested in Leeds for speaking in the public square because the W Yorks police decided they didn't recognise the Standing for Women event as a legitimate protest, despite the organisers having done everything required of them to hold one under the law at that time.

In an iconic photo as she was being put into the police van you could see her T shirt from the back read "Thought Criminal". Hence "the Emily".

Mockolate · 14/02/2021 00:30

@Mockolate umm. Are you ok? Your post is a bit of a ramble. Maybe use some bullet points?

Yes, I'm fine, thank you.
You?

ErrolTheDragon · 14/02/2021 00:33

And 'Thought Criminal' is a reference to 1984... there's quite a lot of Orwellian stuff going on one way and another.

Winesalot · 14/02/2021 00:33

I am quite sure that only people who genuinely ❤️ Joanne Rowling will have a tote or a shirt that states that.

It is like wearing a AC/DC tshirt and having people come up and discuss their favourite songs. Of course people ‘get’ you.

There are different reasons to love Joanne Rowling and each to their own. I doubt everyone has the same reason but why would you wear a shirt like that if you did not.

Only people set on shaming women for discussing the impact of other groups rights uses terms like dog whistle. If you feel there is no conflict in rights, please discuss this rather than seeking to shame others. There are plenty here who are interested in learning more so open discussion is great.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/02/2021 00:33

Yes, absolutely.

Mrsmorton · 14/02/2021 00:34

@Mockolate yes my love. But I'm not the one trying to give away other womens rights. So maybe précis it and add some value... or head back to handmaindensnet.

Member869894 · 14/02/2021 00:37

What is GC??

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/02/2021 00:37

I don't wear a t-shirt. If possible, I wear or pin on a bag the 'In with the wrong crowd' and 'Cats against the patriarchy badges' from

wildwomynworkshop.com/

I'm an atheist, but this reminds me of the stories I have heard about ancient Christians leaving secret signals like the fish and so on.

If only we could manage to set up a GC Feminist numbers station with secret one-time pads to send and decipher messages. I can imagine the call signal as a xylophone rendition of Reddy's "I am Woman" and Posie intoning "One, Nine, Five'. Nine, Nine, Six" and so on...

Mrsmorton · 14/02/2021 00:38

@Member869894 kinda code for "read the thread".

Mockolate · 14/02/2021 00:39

That's OK then my lovely.
(I can do patronising too.)
Handmaiden?
So you did understand my post just a little bit then, nice try trying to make out it was just rambling, I'm a handmaiden and a love to boot just because my post was against other opinions.

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