Allison Bailey to sue Stonewall -thread 2

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Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Allison's website allisonbailey.co.uk

Statement

First and foremost, I hope that my legal action will bring me justice. I also hope that it can stop Stonewall from policing free speech via its Diversity Champions scheme.

Stonewall have signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary sector organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights. What is called Stonewall Law. Without most of the public realising it, a large swathe of British employers have signed up to the Stonewall value system. It has done this by trying to silence and vilify women like me who have genuine concerns about how its approach to trans inclusivity conflicts with the protections, safety and dignity of women, girls, children and LGB people.

We cannot achieve a just outcome for everyone while Stonewall are free to threaten women like me with the loss of our livelihoods and reputations. Stonewall must be held to account. I intend to do just that.

there is very little research going into proving that all women are women, means clearly that not all women are women.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

@Forgotthebins I totally agree. It is astonishing that in this day and age a black lesbian is targeted by an organization that was originally started to support gay and bisexual people for .... helping to start and organization for same sex attracted people. Are we totally though the looking glass yet?

At one point on twitter, a gender activist joked about setting fire to Allison's house.

Well seeing the sort of aggression and threats that come from trans activists (not actually Trans a lot of the time ) that is quite common.
It’s dismissed as ‘only words’ or ‘not intended to be taken literally’. It is just standard male aggression towards uppity women who won’t shut up and do as they are told. Except for sometimes they do actually follow though with their threats.

Helen 8220 You've asked me: I realise that’s very much the exception rather than the rule, but how would you characterise her in terms of sex?

I wouldn't characterise an intersex person - that's for her and her doctors to conclude. Intersex groups have asked to be protected from those wishing to weaponise their circumstances and I respect that. The existence of intersex people does nothing to support the arguments for self identification. Sex is binary. Demanding that people believe otherwise on pain of punishment is undemocratic and anti social behaviour.

Returning to the subject of the thread - are you not concerned to see a Stonewall appearing in court to answer (according to the judge) evidenced charges that they sought to 'persuade' an organisation to sanction an employee for holding views that Stonewall don't like? As a lesbian I was pleased to see another organisation start up that aims to represent the LGB community. Should Stonewall also be complaining to my employers and seeking punishment for me?

I think a thread about Stonewall demanding a lesbian be punished economically for not supporting them is an inappropriate venue to discuss the specific issues of intersex people. Seems rather disrespectful to people concerned about either topic. A new thread would be the sensible thing to do.

Found the screenshots, so people can appreciate the full depths of what Allison has been subjected to by people who identify as LGBT supporters.

This particular tweet may have been liked by the sometime co-chair of the Barnsley LGBT forum. Can you imagine feeling welcome and accepted at that group as a young lesbian in South Yorkshire?

Morning, @persistentwoman. Just wondering, although hopefully not to take the focus off the amazingly resilient Allison Bailey, do you or does anyone else have a preferred legitimate source / ref, re this that I could make reference to elsewhere?

Intersex groups have asked to be protected from those wishing to weaponise their circumstances and I respect that. The existence of intersex people does nothing to support the arguments for self identification.

I do quite a bit a freelance and pro bono writing* and I have an idea.

*Yes I know, I'm beyond incoherent on here sometimes

TheLaughingGnome

Intersex conditions campaigner ClaireCAIS on twitter, the site differently-normal.com/blog-2/ and the charity DSD Families.

TheLaughingGenome Morning
There've been some threads on FWR but am rubbish at finding things on here. Emma Hilton - FondOf Beetles on twitter is an expert in this I believe.

Also resources and insights at the twitter accounts of @RaeUK, and @AlexAlicit

That person who was talking about burning down AB's house also targets Hibo Wardare, I think. Misogynistic racist.

Thanks that great 👍

Back to Allison Bailey! (Or please PM me.)

I thought this might be a good place to come for a polite, reasoned debate

It is.

This is an excellent piece to send to people who use sophistry about intersex people as a gotcha to prop up gender identity ideology:

medium.com/@genderdetective/an-open-letter-to-the-guy-on-twitter-who-wonders-if-biological-sex-is-real-58d2cb4403f5

Thank you all - those DSD links are excellent reading; thought-provoking and moving, too.

(I thought it was bad enough when I saw that my hysterectomy was being hijacked by a particular ideological 'argument'.)

@MsMarvellous, you said upthread you have chambers clerking experience? I'm wondering what your take is on a hitherto successful barrister in a very big chambers seeing a 68% decrease in their income in 2019 - is that very unusual, barring absence for clear reasons?

Transgender people are no more likely to have DSD than any other person.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6083207/#!po=70.4545 study on karotypes and gender dysphoria.

Found it strange that BBC , even in their diversity section, didn't pick up this legal case against Stonewall . I would have thought it would have been worth a mention?

Has anyone picked up anything at all in the Sunday papers about Allison Bailey and her case??

@FeckTheMagicDragon

Well seeing the sort of aggression and threats that come from trans activists (not actually Trans a lot of the time ) that is quite common. It’s dismissed as ‘only words’ or ‘not intended to be taken literally’. It is just standard male aggression towards uppity women who won’t shut up and do as they are told. Except for sometimes they do actually follow though with their threats.

Trump supporters 'only' used words.

Then they stormed the Capitol, some with the intention of assassinating members of Congress.

They didn't. But it came close.

Words like this are not meaningless. They demonstrate intent. They only need an opportunity to open up and to be taken advantage of.

These are not meaningless sentiment we should just forget. They are deliberate threats of violence.

Take them seriously.

Stonewall turning a blind eye and pretending its not important are enablers.

Same pattern of undermining the rule of law through violence and intimidating. And its strangely dominated not by biological women...

@TheLaughingGenome

Has anyone picked up anything at all in the Sunday papers about Allison Bailey and her case??

I was just coming here to post this:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/14/race-gender-oppressed-can-be-oppressors-too-kemi-badenoch

Surprisingly sympathetic from the Guardian.

Thanks HPFA!

Times UK seems to be posting quite a few GC articles though they also post TRA articles for balance. I wonder when this will start to filter into the New York Times? The one thing the media does, is follow the story and they must know there are masses of people likely to be GC in the US. Although the papers are independent of each other, they do have strong links. Joe Biden has come out on the side of Trans rights, but there is a bit of a backlash brewing, and he doesn't seem to have signed off as much as people think.

Is this a change from the Guardian and if so, they have strong links to their US title?? any thoughts

Quite a surprise from the Guardian. Thanks for posting link.

Thanks for sharing that HPFA. Something that jumped out to me in the part about conflicting views regarding gender and biological sex "Both perspectives have a right to be heard." A seemingly simple statement, yet really this is the heart of the problem. Allison's case had arisen exactly because Stonewall don't believe she has a right to be heard. Their approach #nodebate argued that an alternative perspective has no right to be heard.

Times UK seems to be posting quite a few GC articles though they also post TRA articles for balance.

Janice Turner was at Speakers Corner. She’s been covering it for years now & is the main reason a lot of GC women subscribe to the Times.