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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Martina Navratilova on trains in sport

60 replies

PIKNIK20 · 03/02/2021 12:12

Nick Robinson in an interview with Navratilova on Today Radio 4 today:
"Your argument is that there is something called biological sex".

OP posts:
Conniethesensible · 03/02/2021 12:16

choo choo.

Tibtom · 03/02/2021 12:17

Gone off the rails

FWRLurker · 03/02/2021 12:27

Average listener: “...come again?”

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 12:32

"Your argument is that there is something called biological sex".

Haha seriously? What a plank Grin

RozWatching · 03/02/2021 12:33

Nick Robinson said that?

It's like saying to a scientist guest, "your argument is that there is something called climate change" so as not to hurt Nigel Lawson's feelings...

JaimeLeeCurtains · 03/02/2021 12:34

How did she answer the question?

Sometimesonly · 03/02/2021 12:34

What time was this? I'd like to listen.

Aroundtheworldin80moves · 03/02/2021 12:36

(my initial thought on the title was I wouldn't like to play rugby with a train.)

Is the existence of biological sex now in doubt?

zanahoria · 03/02/2021 12:36

I thought Nick Robinson was just queuing her up?

It was after someone else had denied it

Xanthangum · 03/02/2021 12:40

The earlier speaker was Sharon McGowan, who was recently given an award by Stonewall. So clearly open-minded on the issue.

www.lambdalegal.org/news/dc_20181019_sharon-mcgowan-to-receive-american-bar-association-stonewall-award

UppityPuppity · 03/02/2021 12:40

Your argument is that there is something called biological sex

Not listened yet - and I am trying to be generous even though I loath the BBC but was he saying this - in a more indirect way because of BBC bias - to make it clear to the uninitiated listener who probably still thinks that transgirls and transwomen are girls and women who identify as trans, and don’t realise they are males - just like other boys and men who compete in men’s sports, and the exclusion is based on sex, not trans status?

Or am I getting mixed up with Justin Webb - who I remember was quite incredulous with Jo Swinson who???!!! before the last election about her trans stance.

newyearnewname123 · 03/02/2021 12:41

Your argument is that there is something called biological sex

I thought this was said to make things a little clearer. When a guest is talking about girls in sport who haven't gone through puberty, the average listener would think they were talking about girls.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 03/02/2021 12:43

I want more train jokes.

JustSpeculation · 03/02/2021 12:43

He has a point.

No, bear with me for a minute...

If you say there is a thing called biological sex, then it could be taken to suggest that there are other ways in which you can have a sex which are not biological. Otherwise, why would you need to qualify "sex" with the word "biological"? That would be absurd, of course, but possible.

I didn't hear that bit of Today today, but if Navratilova had answered by saying "I am claiming that sex is biological", it would have cleared up the (technical) ambiguity.

LadyDanbury · 03/02/2021 12:46

How did she reply?

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 03/02/2021 12:50

I'd've liked Martina (or anyone else being interviewed) to keep asking the question:

Why do you think males and females are segregated at all, would you be in favour of men playing against women and no separate categories.

I get that it's pointless and mostly rhetorical as interviewers ignore questions and it looks like trans rights activists still will not debate this on the media because they're pathetic.

(Unless someone here knows there was another reason why the two were not on the programme at the same time?)

Original poster
PIKNIK20 · 03/02/2021 13:00

It was on at 8.45 am. I have already written to Today about it: "How would you have had your children, Nick, if biological sex does not exist?"

OP posts:
InspiralCoalescenceRingdown · 03/02/2021 13:23

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rvjm

Interview with McGowan starts about 48 minutes in and the interview with Navratilova is at about 2:44.

I actually think you're being too harsh on Robinson, OP, his actual question is this:

"Your argument, essentially, is that there is something called biological sex which is different from gender identity and you need to recognise that in sport?"

In both interviews Robinson seems pretty clear on the sporting advantages of male puberty.

Original poster
PIKNIK20 · 03/02/2021 13:27

I must retract, after listening to the full interview at 6.50am, the criticism of NR. He has presented the full argument, and did it fairly. As said in the previous post by newyearnewname123, he was just presenting the argument.
However, if I attracted you to the interview, then my job is done.

OP posts:
JaimeLeeCurtains · 03/02/2021 13:33

But how did Navtratilova answer?

StandWithYou · 03/02/2021 13:50

Navratilova answered really well - bringing in arguments about reducing testosterone doesn’t reduce men’s strength sufficiently so that there is no advantage for transwomen competing against women. Brought in height, lung capacity, safety etc which would always be there.

She did say in some sports there may be no advantage e.g. equestrian events (which are mixed sex anyway), shooting etc.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 03/02/2021 13:52

Yes, I also would like to know how she answered.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 03/02/2021 13:52

X posted!

StandWithYou · 03/02/2021 14:07

Having listened again she did limit it to elite sports at school, college and adult level. I think it should be wider but she wants to start a debate and base it in science rather than feelings.

Yamayo · 03/02/2021 14:15

Ironically I remember watching her play as a child.
There were comments about her being 'too masculine' (I guess in hindsight homophones euphemism) and that it gave her an unfair advantage... 🤔