Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can we discuss this without it getting deleted?

124 replies

HeadPain · 31/01/2021 15:19

Thread has gone because some posts within it allegedly broke the rules. Can we discuss this without breaking the rules? It's important. It's false information, and false representation about the UK, the NHS, and about us, and women and our healthcare and lives in general. Also offensive to women, and making false equivalence and false inferrences. It's in the media, trending on twitter, liked over 200,000 times, shared tens of thousands of times...

mobile.twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1355577911949070341

"Hello friends! I'm delighted to say I'm a trans woman; my name is Abigail and you can refer to me with she/her.

Thank you to everyone who kept my secret for such a long time as I prepared to come out publicly! I'm excited to continue my acting career and Philosophy Tube. Please respect my privacy and treat everyone with kindness and patience, even those who don't treat me kindly. It's so lovely to finally relax, to sleep well with sweet dreams and be at home in myself! But I'm also scared. Things are very, very bad for trans people in the UK and they're getting worse. My existing following means I have now instantly become one of the most recognisable transgender people in the country and I feel an enormous pressure to be "good at it", like if I could only be clever enough, or pretty or funny or articulate enough, things would magically come right! Alas, I can't be a perfect paragon of trans Britain, I'm just an actress, but I can relay the following facts:

Trans people have existed for as long as there has been a Britain (longer!) But even after a century of feminism the government still dictates what we may do with our own bodies. The NHS is forced by outdated rules to discriminate against us: if a cisgender (ie. Not trans) woman wants hormone replacement therapy for menopause she can get it from the GP, but if a trans person needs it to transition we have to travel to a separate clinic and be interrogated by psychiatrists. Because of this discrimination waiting lists are several years long. Women like me die waiting for the exact same medicines that bald men get from the GP to treat hair loss. Trans men die waiting for breast reduction surgery that cis women get for back pain. In England and Wales people under 16 can get an abortion, which is permanent, but trans children can't get life saving puberty blockers, which are reversible. Some politicians promise to reduce waiting times , but that's not equality; it's just more efficient discrimination. We don't have equal legal rights either. Cis people can use their passport as proof of ID when they get married or adopt children, but we can't - even though my passport says 'F' for Female i'd have to beg the government's permission to become a wife or mother. There has never been a trans MP , member of the House of Lords , MSP, MS, or MLA. No party has equal rights as a policy goal. Trans people, especially trans people of colour, are hit hardest by unemployment, homelessness, and domestic, sexual , and police violence, but the conversation always focuses on wealthy white cis women tweeting about toilets. Overworked journalists often don't know much about our lives, so antifeminists and religious extremists feed them pseudoscience and fear mongering. Antisemitic conspiracy theories about a mythical "trans lobby" controlling universities or government are printed without criticism alongside calls to have us "cured" with conversion therapy, which, shockingly, is still legal. Well-meaning folks worry about embarrassing themselves by 'saying the wrong thing', so they never speak up to help us. Like Suffragettes and black civil rights movements before us we are told to watch our tone lest the people denying us the means to live get hurt feelings.

I might only be an actress, but as a feminist I can't submit to civic inferiority or give up control of my body. In my view feminism isn't a tea party with the Queen or a girlboss brunch with #femspirational CEOs, it's our common struggle to be free. Today i'd like to add my voice to the many demanding new legislation for trans equal rights: an informed consent system of medical transition and a self-ID system of legal transition for all who desire it, including nonbinary people. Everyone else in Britain already gets their healthcare and gendered services that way; surely it's only fair that we should to? In my mind there's no question about it, just as there was no legitimate "debate" about whether to give gay and lesbian people equal rights; we don't "cancel" or "silence" Flat Earthers when we set aside their concerns about space travel and start listening to cosmonauts! That said, "equal rights" won't fix the poverty, criminalisation, surveillance, and state violence facing all those who work for a living rather than own property and capital. Trans equality must be part of a huge redistribution of power and resources so society serves human instead of profit. I hope that someday soon people of all ages realise that being trans is perfectly normal. Like all human beings we are inherently valuable and entitled to self -determination, and if that makes others upset then it's only because they're choosing not to live in reality. These are scary times, but "courage calls to courage everywhere and its voice cannot be denied." Even when other people make it hard, being trans is a gift. My love goes out to every trans person reading my words in Britain or overseas, especially those who can't come out - yet!

This above all: to think own self be true, and it must follow, as night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man!

Abigail XXx "

I am angry about this flippant remark about women: "Trans men die waiting for breast reduction surgery that cis women get for back pain." First it sounds minimising of the pain and conditions of women who need breast reduction, nerve , spinal issues. Trans people die, we just get back pain. Abigail really thinks women can just walk in to the G P and demand breast reduction (or mastectomy, since Abigail is comparing it to trans men surgery) and get it no questions asked? And the G P decides it? or they refer to a specialist immediately? Many have commented that the NHS refused to do breast reduction for them despite suffering with debilitating pain and conditions, and women who did get the NHS to do it wasn't easy and instant, having to wait and repeatedly ask to be refered, wait months to see different hospital consultants, different areas of medicine, prove their case, for example that they can no longer work a job, and took so much time to get it, their conditions deteriorated. Many women and men for different conditions are forced to go private and pay for treatment because NHS is slow, difficult, incompetent in an area, or won't do it. Women with health issues who wanted hysterectomy, the same things. Takes years if it even happens. Is there any need for these false comparisons? Same with the comment about abortion for under 16 vs puberty blockers, and menopausal women having HRT vs using hormones to transition sex. This was poorly thought out, uninformed, and offensive pitting themselves against women. A lot of this statement sounds ignorant, hateful and demeaning towards women. And a false picture is being painted where everyone, except for trans people, are getting great on demand treatment from the NHS, no assessment, no waiting, everything we want and NEED immediately. can't demand any prescription treatment or surgery or test. Even minor drugs. Doctor makes assessment of you and prescribes, or suggest treatment. You go ahead with their recommendation with informed consent about risk/benefit. That's what informed consent is. And GP/GP doesn't make treatment decisions and handle treatment in specialised areas... lol I've spent hours in hospitals at endocrinologists just for my hyperactive thyroid, for stuff that I wonder why GP couldn't do it. I don't think a transition can happen from a GP office? Women with long term female health conditions don't really get great care from my experience. I've felt like if you're not dying they don't care. Mayb e we should say we'll die if we don't get what we need. Do I need to mention women with cervical cancer symptoms who have died because doctors thought they were too young to get tested? Not just women, men and women have died or have advanced cancers because their cancer symptoms were dismissed and not even tested/referred for testing, even despite going back to doctor repeatedly. Anyway...

Also falsely representing the UK debate about this having anything to do with "religious extremists" , when it's absolutely not at all. And as we know is mainly left wing women, gender critical feminists who care about women and girls, (and gender non conforming boys). We're "antifeminists"? I also would like to know where this has been printed, "printed without criticism alongside calls to have us "cured" with conversion therapy", which UK "Overworked journalists" or publications have printed this? And when have any of us called for that?

Also, labelling as "anti-Semitic conspiracy theory", the truth of groups like Stnewall, Mermids and GI lobbying the government, politicians, universities (and many other places)??!

And I just want to put this here, since the claim is that UK and NHS is so awful, offering all of this for free:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/

NHS referrals for lots of things have waiting lists. Speed the time up, but apparently that's not enough... it has to be immediately whatever they want on demand, no assessment from professionals, because they think we get that kind of treatment, we don't. And they think things they're talking about are equivalent, they're not.

Btw, "everyone else" does not self-ID themselves as M of F . Our sex is observed and recorded at birth. And gender is bs, social constructed and conditioned forced upon us due to our sex.

Also would like to see the evidence for these claims, UK data please:

"Trans people, especially trans people of colour, are hit hardest by unemployment, homelessness, and domestic, sexual , and police violence, but the conversation always focuses on wealthy white cis women tweeting about toilets"

This part too.. "wealthy white cis women tweeting about toilets", just... Lol, really ?

Who exactly is this supposed to be a dig at "In my view feminism isn't a tea party with the Queen or a girlboss brunch with #femspirational CEOs" ?

And ?? :
"That said, "equal rights" won't fix the poverty, criminalisation, surveillance, and state violence facing all those who work for a living rather than own property and capital. Trans equality must be part of a huge redistribution of power and resources so society serves human instead of profit."

OP posts:
TheBuffster · 01/02/2021 21:01

It just occurred to me that I have never been called brave or stunning.
Might have to coerce DH into it when I successfully pump my tires or something.

PlanDeRaccordement · 01/02/2021 22:01

@TheBuffster
I don't have a philosophy degree but I'm pretty sure I could cobble something semi coherent if I came out as a woman.

Well you know what they say, a woman has to work twice as hard to be considered as good as a man ergo a man that works half as hard is considered as good as a woman.

NameChange7677 · 01/02/2021 22:26

Thank you to all who commented to me. Sending love and Flowers to you all.

HeirloomTomato · 02/02/2021 00:05

Chalking that post up to: 'transwoman transitions and realises that life as a woman really f**king sucks', exhibit #278892009482

Yeah, if there's one thing all of us women here on Mumsnet know, it's that women's healthcare is completely unproblematic and easy. Just check the threads to read all the hundreds of happy women sharing stories of how wonderful their birth experience was, what sensitive care they got after a miscarriage and how easy it is to get good quality HRT as a menopausal woman. The stories are legion!

And of course, women's political representation is also completely equal in the UK. Now that 2 out of the past 70? prime ministers have been women, it's all good here in Womanland. Glad we can move on to focus on the needs of transgender people now!

highame · 02/02/2021 11:54

This is a bit of a curved ball (UK not US but like the expression). I didn't read all of Abigail's diatribe (I don't have many masochistic tendencies) but there writ large was Queer Theory. Has anyone heard of Vlad 'the Stock Impaler'? He's the wokey who started the Robinhood app that has taken on the Hedge funders at their own game. Now, I'm all for someone doing this, but it hits right at the heart of Capitalism and is really hacking off a lot of people. Now, when you do that sort of thing, your project will be very short lived.

Woke is so tied up with trans due to idealogical equality and with BLM. There will be a major backlash and there will be fallout. I am wondering if the Companies now looking at their Stonewall Champion status, wont be keeping an eye on the culture wars.

Women's rights are so important to me that I am looking for anything that will shore up my and my daughter's rights. This attack on Wall Street and Free Speech may well backfire in a big way. Keep an eye on the US .

I might be talking a load of twaddle but ya never know Grin

QueenoftheAir · 02/02/2021 18:35

Who is this person? I've never heard of them ...

SunsetBeetch · 02/02/2021 18:39

@QueenoftheAir

Who is this person? I've never heard of them ...
You've never heard of "the most famous transwoman in the UK"? For shame.

(They have a Youtube channel.)

QueenoftheAir · 03/02/2021 10:06
Grin

Oh, a YouTube channel. Must be famous then, and I live under a rock.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 10:50

It's a "pop philosophy for dummies" type YouTube channel. I've never heard Thorn say anything genuinely thought-provoking in the few videos I've watched.

QueenoftheAir · 03/02/2021 16:13

Thank you for taking one for the team @Ereshkigalangcleg

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 16:27

I really did! Grin

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 16:28

If anyone would like to join the fun:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=yCxqdhZkxCo

ginghamstarfish · 03/02/2021 16:47

From a quick read I would guess we are not allowed to discuss the subject, although clearly A is seemingly free to state Abigail's own opinion about lots of things wherever A likes, whether or not they are correct or have the slightest basis in reality. A would appear to be a person who cannot see much past their own sense of self-importance. As long as a person like A is free to come out with stuff like this, and we are not, then there can never be fairness of any sort. This morning I went to have a mammogram, and was half expecting a person like A to perhaps be in the 'strictly women only' area, as that now sounds like a challenge for some, but thankfully there was not.

Enough4me · 03/02/2021 17:00

Abigail's writing leaves me with the impression of a toddler having a jealous tantrum. I imagine the ranting in his head "I'm a woman, they're just cis, I'm the real one, me, me, me".

QueenoftheAir · 03/02/2021 18:07

I would guess we are not allowed to discuss the subject, although clearly A is seemingly free to state Abigail's own opinion about lots of things wherever A likes

Oh yes, Abigail is free to discuss women's lives and existence, and spread rubbish about our medical & health care etc etc.

But - translives are not up for debate.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

SunsetBeetch · 14/02/2021 18:01

This is good from Mars (a trans man, if you're not familiar with him).

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 14/02/2021 19:13

[quote SunsetBeetch]This is good from Mars (a trans man, if you're not familiar with him).

[/quote] Thanks for the link- Mars is very likable!

He discusses philosophy tube from 8.05 onwards - starting with philosophy tube stating (from a video in 2018) that he is a cis-gender male!

Anyoneelsewilldo · 14/02/2021 19:37

@AllCatsAreBeautiful how dare you refer to me as a cis woman. What gives you the right to decide what I am called - I am a woman. There is no such thing as a cis woman. There are women and there are trans women. The end.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 15/02/2021 09:40

"Trans men die waiting for breast reduction surgery that cis women get for back pain." I'm 56 this year... still waiting for that surgery!

I have no idea who this persn is but they have absolutely no idea, do they?

All that babble, a mix of self pity, misinformtation, and downright lies - or is it just me who has never seen or heard of them?

I am still not sure how the hell huamns got to this space. But I am already on a warning, so I'll shut up!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/02/2021 09:58

I have no idea who this persn is but they have absolutely no idea, do they?

No, they don't.

SunsetBeetch · 21/02/2021 19:58

A woman who has endured "years of back pain" and sores due to her breast size says she is fundraising for a reduction after being refused one on the NHS.

Kelly Michaud, 26, has 34H breasts, which she says causes her huge physical discomfort as well as mental distress.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-56114401

TheBuffster · 21/02/2021 20:45

@SunsetBeetch are you on twitter? I'm not but I'd quite like that story linked to Abigail's timeline.

SunsetBeetch · 21/02/2021 20:52

I'm not any more, no. Somebody must be?

Wandawomble · 23/02/2021 11:16

Abigail doesn’t understand women.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread