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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Innocent drinks

416 replies

Biscuitsanddoombar · 29/01/2021 14:20

So another brand proves that they’re not keen on women having thoughts

Innocent drinks
OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
SophocIestheFox · 02/02/2021 14:58

@MichelleofzeResistance

It would help if occasionally someone who believes in this nonsense could defend it without being childish, rude and unable to do more than insult everyone.

You really start to wonder if there's any civil, articulate grown up anywhere within this movement.

One day it might happen, michelle.

I don’t think today’s that day.

It’s about as likely as Heinz suddenly re-tweeting Jane Clare Jones articles, or Muller sponsoring Fair Play For Women Grin now that would be fun.

Apollo440 · 02/02/2021 15:06

@Apollo440

I've noticed the new TRA tactic when confronted with Karen White or some trans presenting person who has carried out an assault in a toilet is to say 'but those are men'. Would any of them care to share their magic diving rod that tells them they are men and not transwomen? I'm guessing we won't be flooded with answers.
Still waiting....
JaimeLeeCurtains · 02/02/2021 15:06

It's a brilliant song covered by Johnny Cash but it's not a Johnny Cash song as such. It's a Nine Inch Nails song.

Do facts matter? When are they factoids instead? Who knows these days.

NecessaryScene1 · 02/02/2021 15:06

You really start to wonder if there's any civil, articulate grown up anywhere within this movement.

I think that's how most of us ended up here.

Sure, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence, but at some point Occam's Razor forces you to conclude that they can't just be conspiring to hide all their good arguments and evidence.

TeenyTinyDustinHoffman · 02/02/2021 15:20

Nahhh hun - I've been using bathrooms for 3 decades just fine. trans people have been using them too. I go into a cubicle, do my business and leave.

The misogyny I experienced is from Men. not trans folk.

if you wanna keep spaces single-sex, I'll put it simply.

I'm not fucking showing my genitals to a toilet inspector. That is not empowering.

so once again oops xxx

Do you have to lack a certain amount of reading comprehension before you become a trans ally? Or is it just coincidental that not a single one seems to be able to grasp that not letting men (of the male variety) self ID their way into women's bathrooms (and changing rooms, and prisons and refuges and sports and scholarships and hospital wards and breastfeeding/PND groups and shortlists...) isn't the same as having a "genital inspection"?

Because women (and men, I'd hazard) are actually pretty damn good at ascertaining whether someone's male or female. Very occasionally, a male will pass sufficiently well so as to go unnoticed into a women's space with other women. In which case- congratulations, you've gotten away with it! And if you've just gone there to "do your business", and not made anyone else uncomfortable in the process, then there's no real harm done.

But when the guidelines regarding single sex spaces are basically "if you say you're a woman, go on in and bollocks to how anyone else feels about it", then not only can you not ascertain whether the person going in is the sort to abuse or harass people, but a woman who goes into a communal changing room (for example) and sees what is very obviously a man there cannot do anything about it. She cannot tell a manager or attendant that there's a man in the women's changing rooms because that man says he's a woman- and who is she to dispute that?

Datun · 02/02/2021 15:32

@TeenyTinyDustinHoffman

Nahhh hun - I've been using bathrooms for 3 decades just fine. trans people have been using them too. I go into a cubicle, do my business and leave.

The misogyny I experienced is from Men. not trans folk.

if you wanna keep spaces single-sex, I'll put it simply.

I'm not fucking showing my genitals to a toilet inspector. That is not empowering.

so once again oops xxx

Do you have to lack a certain amount of reading comprehension before you become a trans ally? Or is it just coincidental that not a single one seems to be able to grasp that not letting men (of the male variety) self ID their way into women's bathrooms (and changing rooms, and prisons and refuges and sports and scholarships and hospital wards and breastfeeding/PND groups and shortlists...) isn't the same as having a "genital inspection"?

Because women (and men, I'd hazard) are actually pretty damn good at ascertaining whether someone's male or female. Very occasionally, a male will pass sufficiently well so as to go unnoticed into a women's space with other women. In which case- congratulations, you've gotten away with it! And if you've just gone there to "do your business", and not made anyone else uncomfortable in the process, then there's no real harm done.

But when the guidelines regarding single sex spaces are basically "if you say you're a woman, go on in and bollocks to how anyone else feels about it", then not only can you not ascertain whether the person going in is the sort to abuse or harass people, but a woman who goes into a communal changing room (for example) and sees what is very obviously a man there cannot do anything about it. She cannot tell a manager or attendant that there's a man in the women's changing rooms because that man says he's a woman- and who is she to dispute that?

It's utterly self evident, isn't it. So I'm left to conclude that the argument you describe is deliberately deceitful.

What the point is, god knows, because it makes the person look either worryingly daft or mendacious.

Nothappytohelp · 02/02/2021 15:42

@Beamur

Not really interested in a derail into toilet police. This is about fake woke-wash and how some clumsy PR is now resulting in ageist, sexist bullying. Nice one 'Innocent'
This is the point exactly. Interesting that the derailer has, unsurprisingly, failed to acknowledge the irresponsible behaviour of this company's PR department. Does their lack of comment on this mean they think the targeted abuse of an individual as a direct consequence of a company using their platform on social media to 'name and shame' them is perfectly acceptable? Is the best they can do really to start talking about toilets? Confused
MaudTheInvincible · 02/02/2021 15:47

What the point is, god knows, because it makes the person look either worryingly daft or mendacious.

It's really odd isn't it? As if there's an expectation that you won't question anything, you'll just unthinkingly accept the vapid doctrines stated as facts.

Beamur · 02/02/2021 16:05

@JaimeLeeCurtains

It's a brilliant song covered by Johnny Cash but it's not a Johnny Cash song as such. It's a Nine Inch Nails song.

Do facts matter? When are they factoids instead? Who knows these days.

I think I did know this, but the song has become associated with JC because it was such a good cover. Good point though Grin
HettieMillia · 02/02/2021 16:10

The misogyny I experienced is from Men. not trans folk.

Aren't transfolk men too? Or is there only one variety as far as you're concerned?

AfternoonToffee · 02/02/2021 16:17

Rise Thank you for your reply. I am no real user of Twitter and my account is linked to what I do, so I fully understand not wanting to rock the boat.

I think Innocent are totally wrong on this btw. (I am a serial name changer, not a plopper)

merrymouse · 02/02/2021 16:20

Nahhh hun - I've been using bathrooms for 3 decades just fine. trans people have been using them too. I go into a cubicle, do my business and leave.

The misogyny I experienced is from Men. not trans folk.

So many 'I's' in this post. So much privilege.

justanotherneighinparadise · 02/02/2021 16:27

We know we’ve got a lot of work to do and these five principles are just the start. We want to respect, support and look after people, especially the protected characteristics of race, disability, gender, LGBTQ+, mental health, religion, belief and age (or anything else that’s important to someone). This will always be the case whether they’re planning on working with us or just want to visit and pinch a smoothie from the fridge. That’s because we reckon it’s right to encourage everyone to be themselves and value the things that make them who they are. We promise to always support people in the best way possible and constantly learn, listen and change what we’re doing as we go

Just looking at their website and reading this. I have no issues with them championing diversity but I thought it was interesting that so many of those listed characteristics fly in the face of each other.

For example many religions have no tolerance for homosexuality. They were recently very derogatory to an elderly woman on account of her ‘beliefs’ so the age discrimination doesn’t hold true. There are no ‘protected characteristics of gender’ so let’s assume they got confused and meant sex. Well we know they are very happy to throw sex based rights under the bus if the trans lobby triggers a dog whistle, so again that’s also bullshit.

Justhadathought · 02/02/2021 16:30

Maybe... just maybe. Trans rights do not come at the cost of women's rights. oops

As ever, the total absence of any critical thinking...just keep repeating the mantras. Hey, it has worked so far!

Justhadathought · 02/02/2021 16:32

It would help if occasionally someone who believes in this nonsense could defend it without being childish, rude and unable to do more than insult everyone

The absence of such a considered and engaged response does lead one to conclude that there is none.

Betty91 · 02/02/2021 16:42

ThoseTwitter likes are unlikely to = sales for Innocent smoothies. There may be a few people who confirm their solidarity with a picture of the product but this Twitter storm will pass in a few days and be forgotten and won't translate to sales and money for Innocent.

Those of us who did buy the product and are pissed off might be won back - but because we are creatures of habit and might just pick it up again.

But I'm not sure - they've established themselves as a brand who calls their customers complaints as "nasty people" and have engaged in shoddy immature social media behaviour. I certainly don't want to pay their salaries via buying their products and I bought them regularly.

This from article about customer retention...

"Acquiring a new customer can cost five times more than retaining an existing customer. ... The success rate of selling to a customer you already have is 60-70%, while the success rate of selling to a new customer is 5-20%." They must know this and decided it is worth the punt.

GivesNoFox · 02/02/2021 16:44

Its not just the absence of critical thinking, its just pure lazy pseudo 'intellect' trying to be passed off as some kind of 'witty' response. Basically you let someone else do the thinking for you and you parrot the views in a sarcastic manner that is picked up from American sitcoms and tv shows.

Problem is life isnt a tv show so you don't sound clever or smart, you just sound cringe.

BraveBananaBadge · 02/02/2021 17:07

Often these situations seem to see big companies making major changes off the back of one single complaint. In this case, a random with ten Twitter followers. I think the Always packaging changed because one person didn't want to see the female symbol on the wrapper. And was it the same with the Flora business, can't quite remember. Why aren't the companies in control here? Don't answer that...

nocoolnamesleft · 02/02/2021 17:26

I was at the supermarket yesterday. Reached for my normal large bottles of innocent smoothies. Remembered that they're raving misogynists and bullies. Bought supermarket own brand.

theskyispink · 02/02/2021 17:40

Nahhh hun - I've been using bathrooms for 3 decades just fine. trans people have been using them too. I go into a cubicle, do my business and leave.

The misogyny I experienced is from Men. not trans folk.

if you wanna keep spaces single-sex, I'll put it simply.

I'm not fucking showing my genitals to a toilet inspector. That is not empowering.

so once again oops xxx

Why do they all talk like this? Even in the Innocent thread, they're all full of this glib and flippant way of speaking. It's very bizarre.

merrymouse · 02/02/2021 17:53

Why do they all talk like this? Even in the Innocent thread, they're all full of this glib and flippant way of speaking. It's very bizarre.

It's how twitter works. You post any old rubbish and you get likes.

Literally 'I go into a cubicle on-line, do my business and leave.'

Melroses · 02/02/2021 18:15

Why do they all talk like this? Even in the Innocent thread, they're all full of this glib and flippant way of speaking. It's very bizarre.

Lack of understanding/inability to empathise with the people they claim to be.

Quaagars · 02/02/2021 18:19

*ThoseTwitter likes are unlikely to = sales for Innocent smoothies

Not necessarily - for all those saying "well, I'm never buying them again, bye, I'm off!" there'll be others silently thinking "nice one, glad they're inclusive" and adding them to the shopping list, buying more of them, or want to try their products.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/02/2021 18:23

Ah, very much like happened with JKRs books ... oh... wait...

theskyispink · 02/02/2021 18:24

Hmmm... have you noticed Innocent's Twitter bio?

"We make healthy drinks. We don't want to see any pictures of your banana bread."

Would anyone be up for generously sharing photos of fruity baked delights to the oh-so-innocent overlords...? A bit of good old-fashioned civil disobediance (and cake)?