Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus

313 replies

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 27/01/2021 21:05

twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1354521063502336001?s=21

Personal statement condemning transphobia in response to the number of young members leaving and giving this as their reason.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
littlbrowndog · 30/01/2021 14:51

Thanks wee barra

For clearing it up

Still doesn’t look good

The article is good though and thought provoking

MissBarbary · 30/01/2021 15:07

4.Life expectancy at birth in UK countries

Each of the UK constituent countries experienced either an increase in life expectancy at birth in 2017 to 2019 compared with 2016 to 2018 or saw life expectancy remain unchanged when measured in years. England continued to have the highest life expectancy at birth for males and females, while Scotland continued to have the lowest for both sexes

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/lifeexpectancyforlocalareasoftheuk/between2001to2003and2017to2019

And this is despite significantly higher public speaking per capita in Scotland compared to England.

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 30/01/2021 20:56

It's quite funny (not funny at all) that so many posters supported the SNP SNP members interested in discussing SNP shocker.

OP posts:
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 30/01/2021 21:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 30/01/2021 21:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/01/2021 21:23

Ah, 47 years of healthy life. Still not good, but not life expectancy.

47 years of healthy life against 73 years is pretty stark. And I guess it does show in mortality rates and that's part of the calculation.

ArabellaScott · 31/01/2021 08:25

Thanks for the shares. Good article from Massie - almost posing the Staniland question to the gov there, i see.

Proxy war might be right, and I think shows up how little genuine commitment or care there is within the Scotgov for women OR trans people. Can you imagine the fallout if they sack Cherry?

Also no apparent appetite to overcome the issues or seek practical solutions. Surely not that hard to find a consensus that protects the dignity and wellbeing of all concerned? One would almost think it was a useful wedge issue.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 31/01/2021 08:27

That's a great comment. He gets it.

teawamutu · 31/01/2021 08:44

Scottish MNers, have you any sense of which way the definition debate will go?

BaronessWrongCrowd · 31/01/2021 08:46

Good article. I'm glad quite a few comments are pulling him up on the'TWAW' bit.

newyearnewname123 · 31/01/2021 09:21

Yeah, as soon as you say TWAW, even with reservations, you are insulting women.

UppityPuppity · 31/01/2021 09:38

Thanks for sharing

Yeah, as soon as you say TWAW, even with reservations, you are insulting women.

I completely agree.

I'm glad quite a few comments are pulling him up on the'TWAW' bit.

However, I didn’t read it that way - particularly in the context of the article. He clearly doesn’t believe TWAW - I read this as a statement aimed to the believers/adherences of the mantra to prove how exactly are TW women like our mothers

Although it is a shame he missed out the obvious that many TW are fathers.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 31/01/2021 09:45

I could see the point he was making but it is a clumsy in saying it.

If we concede the word to describe us in anyway shape or form then we lose what we are. So no transwomen are not women, they are transwomen or males who identify as trans.

Tootsweets23 · 31/01/2021 10:19

Love Alex Massie and it was a poor line in an otherwise great article. It is so easy for someone to agree to an unreasonable demand when it doesn't effect them.

I think he wouldn't feel the same if someone said "from now on, the word nazi isn't nazi, it is alex. You ok with that?"...

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 31/01/2021 10:35

So, if this leads to Cherry and McAlpine being chucked out the SNP and we have Andy Whightman roaming around as an independent - would they join forces?

They are three exceptionally bright and fair politicians - if they could find a way to work together, well,

ArabellaScott · 31/01/2021 10:47

@teawamutu

Scottish MNers, have you any sense of which way the definition debate will go?
It may depend how much light and heat is generated by it - we saw the SNP back down over the forensic medical examiner bill where Johann Lamont's amendment forced the issue into the sunlight. Left the Greens high and dry and exposed to a lot of opprobrium.

BUT there were elements within SNP and Labour that clearly wanted to give women a good bashing, and it maybe depends on how much attention is diverted or needing diverted by all the various other issues currently brewing and spilling over.

Here's a recent FOI on definitions, which grudgingly, fudgingly admits humans are dimorphic and sex is real:

www.gov.scot/publications/foi-202000116322/?fbclid=IwAR0jC2Z9je6WH-iF_s6eN4ymHWOqq49rWQyXw5-nxmjeyIyo4lIX6EL4-jU

Wbeezer · 31/01/2021 11:22

Yes, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of who needs to have their identity defined and protected. Activist types seem to take the view that only minority "identities" need protected not majorities as being in a majority magically confers protection and privilege. However nobody lives they lives solely in the bubble of they particular category. If I'm one of a handful of women in a male workplace i am not protected from sexism in that context unless i can define my identity accurately. Your so - called privilige can disappear as you walk from one room to another!
This is why identity politics is bollocks!
I know I'm preaching to the converted here, just practising my arguments for when this comes up in real life.

ArabellaScott · 31/01/2021 11:27

Just had an email from forwomen Scotland. Pasting contents here, hopefully that's okay:

The Committee are meeting on Tuesday 2nd February to debate and vote on various amendments that have been proposed to the Hate Crime Bill.

There are several amendments that we think are vitally important to protect women and our free speech. Please take a few minutes to email the MSPs who sit on the Committee and ask them to back the following key amendments:

Amendment 31 by Johann Lamont to add sex as characteristic to Part 1 of the Bill (aggravation of offences by prejudice). This protection was recommended by Lord Bracadale and the Bill should not proceed without its inclusion. This does not stop any work by the working group on misogyny.

Amendment 89 by Johann Lamont to add the definition of sex which reflects that used in the Equality Act. Even if sex is to be added to the legislation at a later date it is important that the definition is laid down now to protect against subsequent redefinition.

Amendments 90, 91, 99B and 99C by Johann Lamont to ensure clarity on the definition of sexual orientation. Using 'opposite' instead of 'different' sex brings it in line with the Equality Act 2010 and the Offences Act 2009, and does not give the impression that there are more than 2 sexes.

Amendments 106, 108, 111 and 116 to change 'variations in sex characteristics' to the more accurate 'differences in sex development'.

Amendments 104, 107, 109, 113 to change the undefined 'transgender identity' to 'gender reassignment' to bring it in line with that defined in the Equality Act 2010.

Amendment 17 which would remove Part 2 of the Bill. The reaction from trans campaigners to the Government's Amendment 82 can leave no doubt to their intention to use the Hate Crime Bill to restrict women's free speech on advocating for their rights or to be critical of transgender ideology. We cannot see a way of avoiding this and therefore strongly believe the stirring up offences should be removed from the Bill in their entirety.

Amendment 82B will give the best protection to women's free speech should the Bill continue with Part 2.

Amendments 112, 103 and 82 would also be welcome as protection to our freedom of expression.

Please also ask the Committee MSPs to support:

Amendments 39A and 40A to remove the term 'abusive'.
Amendments 41, 44 and 84 to provide a 'dwelling defence'.
Amendment 55 to require the consent of Crown Counsel to any prosecution.

Anyone can contact the nine MSPs who sit on the Committee, you do not have to be a constituent. Their email addresses are:

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Please make sure your emails are sent before Tuesday! Thank you.

littlbrowndog · 31/01/2021 12:50

Interesting this. Also from forewomen

Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus
Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 31/01/2021 22:05

Wings Over Scotland has posted an update, according to his NEC source the transphobia definition didn’t get added to the agenda but the committee has voted that a disabled person or a BAME person must top each of the party’s MSP lists, which will knock Joan McAlpine out of Holyrood as she is a list MSP.

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 01/02/2021 00:06

Can you identify in to either of these ?

Manderleyagain · 01/02/2021 00:51

Yes it looks like both are self identified.

According to wings blog, some individuals have recently started mentioning their disability and hope to be elected this way. Two people who plan to put themselves forward for these list places didn't recuse themselves for the vote and voted the policy through.

They had commissioned a report on whether the policy would be legal from a qc. The qc said it would not be legal and if challenged in court the SNP would likely lose, costing lots of money, but they voted through the policy anyway (just scraping through). There's lots on twitter saying its disgusting that someone leaked it, but not denying the accuracy.

Worth reading wings blog. If true I'm staggered.

Manderleyagain · 01/02/2021 00:53

This thread has the detail.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4152716-SNP-lists-attacks-on-Joan-McAlpine

Swipe left for the next trending thread