The Guardian - 'Non Transgender Girls', 'Female Transwomen' - transwomen are now the default

[MiladyBerserko]

archive.md/vH9jd

Women are now 'non', no longer a word to describe us

Shocking journalism from The Guardian.

Archive link above, don't give the fuckers clicks

Yes. Non trans gender girls

What are they exactly

Calling girls non trangender girls is a nonsensical mangling of language and I consider it as offensive as a racial slur. Sportswomen need to boycott these events where they cannot compete fairly. And any companies who sponsor these events need to think what message that sends to their brand. You either have fairness in sport or not: where’s the competition?

Why do we even have the Paralympics? You might as well have people competing in that without disabilities ? They are just self identifying as disabled today ...

Calling girls non trangender girls

Well it's been around a while hasn't it. Virtue signalling taken to the extreme, and the strongest pat towards this political stance is to make it very clear that male self identified women are very much superior to and considered first while decrying mere female type women.

I'm afraid it's making me more convinced that I need to stop using the phrase woman at all, in any context, for anyone not biologically female. It's been being 'kind' and 'polite' and trying to help that has caused this; you cannot extend this kind of social niceness to a movement that has no reciprocal values or respect for you. That isn't being nice, it's merely being a mug, and it's been proven beyond all doubt now that it's been cynically taken full advantage of.

When I see evidence of TW and activists concerned about women and the rights and needs of women, and with some respect for females, I may then be willing to reconsider.

But it's up to this political lobby to repair the damage they have caused now.

I'm afraid it's making me more convinced that I need to stop using the phrase woman at all, in any context, for anyone not biologically female. It's been being 'kind' and 'polite' and trying to help that has caused this; you cannot extend this kind of social niceness to a movement that has no reciprocal values or respect for you. That isn't being nice, it's merely being a mug...

Hear, hear, Michelle!

@GrinitchSpinach

I'm afraid it's making me more convinced that I need to stop using the phrase woman at all, in any context, for anyone not biologically female. It's been being 'kind' and 'polite' and trying to help that has caused this; you cannot extend this kind of social niceness to a movement that has no reciprocal values or respect for you. That isn't being nice, it's merely being a mug...

Hear, hear, Michelle!

I'll second that hear hear!

There is a term that is banned on MN because it upsets the TRAs and triggers mass complaints.

Transwoman is a deliberately confusing term, because it incorporates the word woman in a term used exclusively for males. On MN I am obliged to use it if I do not wish to be deleted. In RL I use the accurate description that accurately references the individual's sex and the fact that they do not identify as that sex.

I have started to use 'mtf transitioners' and 'ftm transitioners' rather than 'transwomen' and 'transmen'.

This appears to be in line with MN policy. I haven't been deleted for it so far.

I agree that using the terms 'transwomen' and 'transmen' muddy the waters.

I'm afraid it's making me more convinced that I need to stop using the phrase woman at all, in any context, for anyone not biologically female.

Completely agree. It's really interesting to see the response when you describe a man as a man. There's a definite sense of "ooh you've gone a bit far there" which is very odd when I am simply using words accurately.

@EdgeOfACoin

I have started to use 'mtf transitioners' and 'ftm transitioners' rather than 'transwomen' and 'transmen'.

This appears to be in line with MN policy. I haven't been deleted for it so far.

I agree that using the terms 'transwomen' and 'transmen' muddy the waters.

MTF and FTM are in the stonewall glossary so presumably beyond reproach. (Of course the notion of 'female to male' or vv is nonsensical)

"I agree that using the terms 'transwomen' and 'transmen' muddy the waters."

Yes this, I had to explain to my Mum...No, a transman isn't a biological man identifying as a woman. I do wonder how many others are confused by this.

And lo! the recent posts of @SqueakyCarrots musing about possible terms which clarify both sex and gender of the person spoken about, and - ironically - @OldCrone's explanation of likely deletion by using such terms - are deleted.

People generally really don't like women speaking their truth. It's not kind.

@JellySlice

There is a term that is banned on MN because it upsets the TRAs and triggers mass complaints.

Transwoman is a deliberately confusing term, because it incorporates the word woman in a term used exclusively for males. On MN I am obliged to use it if I do not wish to be deleted. In RL I use the accurate description that accurately references the individual's sex and the fact that they do not identify as that sex.

My deleted post in reply to SqueakyCarrots provided a link to the special rules for this part of the site which says that this term is banned.

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

The term that SqueakyCarrots suggested is very similar to this banned term. It would have been more helpful for MNHQ to have provided a link to the special rules in the deletion message rather than the standard talk guidelines.

The term that SqueakyCarrots suggested is very similar to this banned term.
Yes, although the way she explained it sounded like she'd got them the wrong way round to me so perhaps not useful for clearer communication anyway.

Anyway - My post quoting stonewall's 'MTF' stands, as it should. (And I can take it to mean 'male, trans, feminine' so it's even accurate unlike the biologically impossible 'male to female')

Agreed, Errol, indeed I find Feminine/Femininity and Masculine/Masculinity work very well (they are, after all, purely gendered terms) as mental substitutions for both sides of the FTM/MTF acronyms.

I've sometimes seen 'transmasc' used for TM - but (quelle surprise) rarely 'transfemme' or similar for TW.

An interesting piece on a Cece Telfer

nutsandboltssports.com/cece-telfer-a-profile-in-courage/

“I grew up in Canada and Jamaica in a strict conservative lifestyle and heteronormative lifestyle,” she said

There's a possibility that in certain conservative and homophobic cultures, it's easier to transition to be "a woman" than a feminine/effeminate or homosexual man ...

Courage.

Nope. A day later and I’m no calmer about this. Still furious.

[quote MondayYogurt]An interesting piece on a Cece Telfer

nutsandboltssports.com/cece-telfer-a-profile-in-courage/[/quote]
That article, quite apart from the hagiography, is barely literate, eg, what does She is an openly unapologetic black transgender woman who is chattering her path. mean?

Charting her path?

They've relied upon spellchecker - shoddy journalism, shoddy editorial standards. Entirely in keeping with the journalism and editorial standards of the rest of the piece.