Transgender footy star sues AFL

[ChakaDakotaRegina]

HM is to sue the Australian Football League. Australian Rules Football is a similar game to rugby in that the ball is held and thrown and there are high impact tackles.

It is reported below that HM was unable to play in the senior league because they did not meet the lower testosterone level requirements for the women’s teams and also that they refused the offer of their own changing room.

It looks like HM wants to play in a lower women’s league (as opposed to an LGBT or mixed league)

While I’m sorry they don’t feel they are being taken seriously, I’m not sure the safety implications are coming across and I’m concerned this is just to set the precedent to later move up the women’s leagues, regardless of the impact on other participants.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9155345/Transgender-footy-star-Hannah-Mouncey-sues-AFL.html#article-9155345

@Binglebong

....Not allowed to play with other women.... Not impressed with the writing.

Indeed. Barracker was spot on.

@highame

I hope this case will also highlight that it isn't just about hormone levels. Male physical advantage goes way beyond that

But the onus is always on women’s sport to demonstrate why someone like Hannah should be excluded. Instead, the onus should be placed on Hannah to demonstrate the reasons why Hannah should be included, which would require Hannah to demonstrate why sport should never be segregated by sex, ever. What qualifies Hannah to play women’s AFL? I’d like to hear those legal arguments.

I read this and I’m kind of thrilled that this person has taken this action because it’s so patently unfair that HM should take part in women’s sport and I hope this is able to set some kind of precedent.
I hope the finding is that male bodied people cannot take part in women’s sport and it’s very clear on that point. Otherwise what is the point of even having sex segregated sport?

NotBad - Also deleted, probably for the same reason. For some reason HM brings out the worst in me.

Language aside I think the DM have successfully conveyed a point .

Do go on HM - the more ppl that see & hear HM the better as far as I’m concerned. Their lack of self awareness is astounding. I do find it interesting how some TRA are so determined to meeeee on without any thought for the wider trans community. Does HM really think that anyone seeing this is going to think “well there’s someone clearly misunderstood” ??

I hope that women are successful in keeping their sport safe for them.

I too “hope common sense will prevail”. Sport is divided by sex not gender. Hannah is being treated exactly the same as others of Hannah’s sex.

The changing room comment is weird, but, looking at the best case, perhaps Hannah feels it’s singling Hannah out as different. But the truth is Hannah is different. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it won’t go away just by wishing it to, and other people matter too.

The individual is built like a brick shithouse. Why on earth would women want to play against that?
They need to be the ones addressing this, pointing out the obvious risks to their bodily safety on the pitch and the effect upon their reasonable expectations of privacy and dignity (and perhaps more) in their changing rooms and loos.

I hope to heavens that, if the individual is permitted to be in the women's team, the women will refuse to play. They shouldn't have to but it's possible that a refusal to play alongside or against this individual is the only way of putting a stop to these delusional people.

I read this and conclude someone at the mail is GC. You cannot believe the choice of pictures is a coincidence. The disconnect between the words and pictures! Bravo.

It's always a useful exercise to read these articles with the Rohypnol Effect in mind. Try reading this and, in your head, replace compelled-speech pronouns with sex-accurate pronouns.

Mouncey was thrust into the spotlight in 2018 after she was blocked from playing in the Women's AFL because she had too much testosterone to qualify for the female league.
In an explosive post in 2019, Mouncey said she refused a management request to use a separate changeroom because female teammates felt uncomfortable with her presence.

This scares me. If HM, and other people win this case, this will be the death of women’s sport.
I’m using myself as an example here, but I’m tiny and not very athletic. If I wanted to get back into sport, and went into a beginrrs session, and saw a clear bloke there, I’dbe gone, I would be so scared of getting hurt. And teens who are athletic and want to move to the next level of womens sport, I can imagine they might feel the same. Its just not fair that someone can not be good enough in one sex, decide they fancy being the other sex and run rampaging over the people they claim to want to be.
Just out of curiosity, I have yet to see things from the other side- tm wanting to play mens sport. Is that because they know they can’t get away with it.

Wasn’t the changing room issue also a problem for HM in their women’s handball stint?

Do keep going Hannah! Please. Because now their is more peer reviewed research than even 6 months ago that proves testosterone lowering is only part of the issue.

Sadly, that massive male skeletal system, lungs, non-eggshell skull, and other aspects of your individual body brings many safety issues to the women you seek to play with.

But would have absolutely no additional safety issues to the males of your own sex that you could play with.

Meanwhile, cases such as this are a gift that keep on giving.

They need to be the ones addressing this, pointing out the obvious risks to their bodily safety on the pitch and the effect upon their reasonable expectations of privacy and dignity (and perhaps more) in their changing rooms and loos

I imagine they are terrified of doing so because of the fear of backlash from the TRAs and the woke - especially with sporting careers being so competitive and all.

That is another good article which highlights the absolutely wilful lack of consideration of anyone else’s needs for safety or privacy and HMs own desires trump everything. The picture of HM towering over an average sized bloke was a good one as well.

The trouble with legal action is that it creates such hassle and cost for the organisation being sued (and the trans lobby seems to be funded by deep pockets), that it is common for them to give in and agree a settlement even if they are in the right. It will depend on how strong the will in the AFL is to stand up to this, possibly helped by the prospect of greater cost in the inevitable compensation claims.

HM is framing this as a ‘fighting for the rights of an oppressed minority’ so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

@NotYourCisterinAus

NotBad - Also deleted, probably for the same reason. For some reason HM brings out the worst in me.

In seriousness, this is personal too. I have a daughter who has done AusKick. For those in the UK, AusKick is the AFL’s initiative to get more kids playing Aussie rules football. She really enjoyed it. Women’s AFL has really grown in popularity. The AFL need to use this legal case to explain why they think my daughter should continue in the sport. Is it a women’s/girls’ sport, or a mixed sex sport? Let’s get it all out in the open, in court, so I know where I stand in helping my daughter choose a sport to play in the future. Because if they declare that AFL is a mixed sex sport, we will never give them another cent.

The lack of self awareness of some of these male activists is enlightening. Just like the ‘grandma’ rugby player who was a high performing male athlete but has no self awareness that no middle aged females are playing in the women’s team with or against them. Hmmmm.... wonder why they always shut that conversation down every time.

And they never answer why they can still perform at the level of the young and fit female players....

I think the people who push for inclusion into female sports and refuse to acknowledge the physical differences will never stop. In fact, even when they do acknowledge the physical advantages they advocate to ignore them.

As with a cycling academic’s latest paper.

I hope Hannah loses.

Coming on the tail of the McIvers Baths situation, I’d say there was some definite piqueing of interest happening.

I think people are ‘educating’ themselves.

god is this person still trying to inflict themselves on women football players? they've been at this for several years as far as I'm aware.

and yeah, one picture of Hannah explains precisely why Hannah should be playing the men's game if Hannah wants to play football. If you need extra convincing, the fact that Hannah broke a woman's leg while tackling her should do it.

Still not taking no for an answer I see.

What a shock.

I do think transwomen in women's sport is the point at which we will reach a tipping point with this movement. HM is doing useful work in this area and the optics are also helpful. Repeating untrue slogans such as TWAW costs very little for many, people are comfortable with the cognitive dissonance because they're being 'kind', 'tolerant' etc For many they are even comfortable doing so when presented with the details of transwomen prisoners assaulting women inmates in the female estate, because this situation is too far removed from their daily reality. People do not care much about prisoners (this is not right, but it is the case). However, once the untruths start to permeate the world much close to home, or they hear more and more cases of TW claiming to have no physical advantage compared to or that the pose no physical threat to female competitors, people will feel less comfortable repeating the mantras, because deep down they know and see the truth. Plus they will see the impact on women closer to home and there will be cover in more people speaking out.

This is a useful study into repetition as a tool of propaganda by Vanderbilt University "which set out to test how the illusion of truth interacts with prior knowledge...

"Their results show that the illusion of truth effect worked just as strongly for known as for unknown items, suggesting that prior knowledge won’t prevent repetition from swaying our judgements of plausibility.

At first this looks like bad news for human rationality, but – and I can't emphasise this strongly enough – when interpreting psychological science, you have to look at the actual numbers.
What Fazio and colleagues actually found, is that the biggest influence on whether a statement was judged to be true was... whether it actually was true. The repetition effect couldn’t mask the truth. With or without repetition, people were still more likely to believe the actual facts as opposed to the lies."

www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

I too read that article hercates. It was really interesting and kind of reassuring.

But in this particular case, the optics really do show the true implications in actual practice of that sloganeering and good intentions.

"The 31-year-old from Canberra (left)."

Good comedy from the Mail!