Silence of the Lambs etc - are TRAs fighting historic battles?

[UndyingDeathdefying]

I watched this the other night and was pretty shocked by the transphobia......

It made me think about all the TRA posts justifying behaviour by saying “X happens to trans people, therefore they are uniquely vulnerable, therefore those asking questions are wrong”

Looking at old films (Crocodile Dundee was another) it’s clear that society used to have carte Blanche to mock and humiliate transsexuals and to infer criminality.

There is often talk here of the TRAs being led by older men. Well, a man of 50 would have watched both the films I mention above as a teenager. It must have felt degrading and humiliating.

It might explain the sense of “mission” and the clear feeling that the ends justify the means. Just a thought.

Why is seeing an issue from your own risk analysis wrong? Why are you always telling people to ‘be nice’ but never the ones who issue threats and try to take away rights? Why don’t you try to understand more and canonise less?

"always "?

I'm not sure this take is helpful, OP, as the causal link you are suggesting just isn't working very well. (Silence of the Lambs being about a serial killer and not transsexualism, as it would have been referred to then.)

I agree with you that it is always important to put yourself in someone else's shoes, trying to understand her or him, even if you profoundly disagree. Social phenomena have complex causes, though, and I struggle to see how a number of films from the 1980s and 90s can explain the actions of male middle-aged transitioners today. Other factors (revolution in the ways in which people access pornography, the rise of the LGBT movement, much more representation of women in politics and workplaces etc.) seem more important, and I think that was the point of other posters, too.

The Silence of the Lambs is a genuinely haunting movie, a well-executed psychological thriller, a masterpiece even, with stellar performances. I'd hate to see it reduced to one issue that has only recently become mainstream and highly politicised.

"always telling people to be nice"

I think you've mixed me up with someone else.

I may choose to be curious as to why these people are as they are.
You may choose not to be for any number of reasons which may be good ones.

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more

Why do women need to be more understanding about the aggressive tactics I've described in my earlier post?

Because we are supposed to be nice. Op hasn’t seen this memo apparently.

"Why do women need to be more understanding about the aggressive tactics I've described in my earlier post?"

Who said they should? I may choose to be curious - you may reach a decision that you want to put your focus elsewhere.

"Because we are supposed to be nice"

And that isn't what I think, nor what I said.

I may choose to reject the idea of women having to nice and yet remain curious - not necessarily in any particularly clever or well-thought-out way, just curious.

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more Is that a new(ish) way to say "Women, shut up, move over, don't make a fuss" ??

I know why "these people" choose to be as they are. I know what they go through over long periods of time, how far they will go to achieve their aims. But that doesn't mean that I have thrown friends under a bus whenever I condemn TRA actions, changes in legislation that undemine the safety and dignity of women! TRAs do that just fine without any help!

What has gone before is all part of the journey to where/when we are now. You really cannot re-write history! You can only try to reduce it's negatve effect on today. Banning things doesn't do that, it just hides them, drives them underground

That's a tall horse you have there, OP.

"I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more Is that a new(ish) way to say "Women, shut up, move over, don't make a fuss" ??"

Ah, it's not. What's wrong with deciding to condemn a little more and understand a little less? I may be curious about xyz - you may feel it's a distration from what you care about/ that as a matter of principle it's ok to centre something else.

And think about the John Major context before you reverse his meaning.

Isnpiral I don't know what that means.

"But that doesn't mean that I have thrown friends under a bus whenever I condemn TRA actions, changes in legislation that undemine the safety and dignity of women!"

.... and that's fine.

And think about the John Major context before you reverse his meaning. !!!

I was disgareeing woth your interpretation .. and the blanket application of said speech!

If you are not asking women to budge up what are you asking?

Maybe read the rest of my post and have a think on that!

@UndyingDeathdefying

"But that doesn't mean that I have thrown friends under a bus whenever I condemn TRA actions, changes in legislation that undemine the safety and dignity of women!"

.... and that's fine.

Thanks!!!! I feel so much better now!

"If you are not asking women to budge up what are you asking? "

I'm not asking anything of you, I was just wondering about how TRAs come to be as they after seeing this film from my early teens which stimulated some half-thoughts. And I accept that sometimes there are good reasons not to give one's energy to thinking about opponent's point of view.

I must have my thick head on today because I haven't a fucking clue what point you are trying to make, OP, talking in soundbites and quotes from previous Prime Ministers, telling everyone who disagrees with you that they are not curious enough, with a patronising "you may choose to put your focus elsewhere".

All I can take from your witterings is that you think TRA's are justified in their abuse and threats because a couple of films in the 80's might have made them feel humiliated and degraded, by that token I can go around and make death threats and be hideously abusive because there are millions of films, TV programmes, books and plays that are degrading and humiliating to women and I get a free pass, jolly good.

@HecatesCats

I think the general tenor on this board is to understand a little less and condemn a little more

Why do women need to be more understanding about the aggressive tactics I've described in my earlier post?

I would add to this and say what difference does it make if we do understand? Their actions are still the same and it's actions that matter. As Hecates says TRAs continue to abuse and threaten. Our women's rights are still being eroded.

WarOnWomen I accept what you say. Thanks for answering.

"you think TRA's are justified in their abuse and threats"

no, I don't. I just think people reach a point for a reason and I'm interested in that.

@Lammergeier

I think Ed Gein, who Buffalo Bill was based on, would fit comfortably under the trans umbrella these days.

I have never really understood the "trans umbrella". Gender dysphoric people have nothing in common with transvestites, crossdressers and fetishists. GD is a body and mind dysphoria thing that is very real to sufferers. It is rare and needs a proper medical diagnosis which probably explains why there are only about 5 thousand on the Gender Recognition Register.

I just think people reach a point for a reason and I'm interested in that. Then read round some of the older threads. There are a lot about various trans individuals whose stated purpose is to duisprupt the daily life of women.

Raed Stonewall's missions statement which includes the removal of sex as a protected characteristic, removing all single sex provision.

But most of all, maybe find a SM space where trans people discuss their lives and ask them!

WaronWomen, exactly, to justify TRA's wholesale assault on women's rights, their abuse and threats to women on the basis of a film in the 80's which wasn't produced, directed or written by a woman, based on a book not written by a woman, based on a real life character that wasn't a woman, is one of the more ludicrous arguments I've ever had the misfortune to read.

To say nothing of the fact that the OP by describing/deciding the film in question as transphobic has totally missed the entire premise and point of the film.

I take your point Samphire.

RedDogs, if you have read such an argument, it was not put foward by me.