My night just ended with me crying in the bathroom over JK Rowling

[Vespa1]

This thread is mostly a vent and searching for post of support because I feel like crap.

My flat mate and I couldn't sleep so we were in bathroom planning how to redo it soon. Somehow the conversation turned to Harry Potter and he said "JK Rowling... what a terf!"

I said I can't believe he just said that and asked him did he read her essay. He said he did not, only her tweets.

So I told him what she said about her being a domestic violence survivor and how that affects the way she feels when she is in an intimate space with a man and I told him about her saying she thinks the rise in teen girls transitioning is motivated by misogyny and I told him I agree with her because of my personal experiences with male violence and how I would have probably transitioned too if it was a thing when I was a teen. I started crying while saying that because it triggered my experience with male violence.

He said that makes sense and that he agrees. He said he's sorry and that he will read the full essay. He said it shows there is no such thing as nuanced conversations on twitter and that is why he deleted twitter recently.

I know I should feel better that he apologized and agreed but it really bothers me how quick men are to brand women the slurs like terf. I asked him does he even knows what that means and when he said he does I asked him does he know what radical feminist means. There was a two minutes silence before admitting he doesn't have a clue.

So why are you branding her something that you don't even know what it is?

Arghhh rant over. When this nonsense ends the same people will pretend they agreed with her from the start.

He's an uneducated wanker.
I'm glad he will take the time (ffs, why are men so dim)
But you know the truth and so do we.
My daughter looked me in the face today and said if it wasn't for JK she would be thinking she was a man now.
He doesn't matter. She does. You as a keeper of the truth matter. Dont cry anymore tonight.

Good for you for standing your ground.

🏅For letting the light of truth shine out, dispelling the darkness of ignorance and bigotry!

Good for you. Please don't cry.

Had two similar conversations on Twitter in the past two days, both men from the US, both ended up conceding I had a point.

Both followed me after the discussions and I confess I rolled my eyes and was bloody annoyed with them. Doubtless they think they’re showing respect for following me or something, but I wish they wouldn’t. Okay to need time to understand the issues, but why does it have to start from a point of such hostility towards a woman for expressing her opinion in a non-confrontational, wholly decent manner.

I understand why you’d cry. This was your flat mate and you’ve discovered he’s a sexist asshole. It’s a shock to discover so many men have negativity towards women as a default. But please be very proud of yourself for speaking up. It must have taken courage. When you’re ready, dry your tears, hold your head high and carry on.

I was really sad this Christmas when DD said don't buy me anything Harry Potter related, second hand is OK as JK won't be benefit from it. I was shocked, DD is 15, has always been fairly sensible about this kind of thing and her school isn't particularly woke. But it turns out JK is not acceptable with anyone she knows. She knows my point of view and agrees with bits of it, but said there is no way she'd dare raise it at school. It makes me soo, so cross and I just see them as silly little girls who have no life experience. It worries me because if this is happening at their very unenlightened school (they have a bad problem with racism), then it is happening everywhere. It is so depressing.

JKRs essay is there for anyone to read. It speaks for itself.

Every conversation nudges another male who thinks he's right on (but is actually sexist) into reconsidering their position.

It's draining for us. We are exhausted with this. It's witch-burning and it's as old as the hills.

You did well. As did the other pp on Twitter.

The Keira Bell judgment vindicates JKR's perspective!

OP, I think you did a great job with your flatmate!

Perhaps later you can ask him if he has read the essay and what he thinks of it in view of the Keira Bell decision.

Chances are he won't know much (if anything) about Keira Bell, so this is a further discussion point.

Vespa - I'm sorry you had to deal with this but you did really well.

It’s so difficult.

I had very similar with DS (19) at weekend. He referred to me as a “cis woman” and it completely triggered me.
I unleashed (which isn’t my usual manner.) All reason and calm vaporised. An hour later I had outpoured, disputed and referenced all the usual points without barely taking a breath.
Funnily enough I think it had more impact though as I don’t think he had ever realised just how deep this runs.
I followed up two days later with a copy of the Tavistock judgement and other credible stats.
Sometimes, maybe, showing some emotion punctuates just how big this is. Without wishing to stereotype, I do wonder for some males if they need that extra non verbal communication to “get it”.

I’ve noticed a definite change in his attitude. Just keep talking I guess. Even if it’s emotional.

He apologised, and it seems this has been largely fixed!

I've lost my friends to this. My female friends who identify as feminists.

Well done. You got to open his mind a bit.

Most people don’t think.

I had a conversation with someone who is very intelligent and compassionate. She read JK’s essay and agreed with it. We then had a discussion on men coming out as trans/lesbians (EI) and she suggested we could support them by getting rid of single sex spaces...

Unlike you, I managed to completely close her mind. Head plant...

OP, you shouldn’t be crying, you should be punching the air in celebration! You actually got a man to admit his own ignorance, apologise and address it. That is wonderful! Go, you!
It sounds to me as if he is not a malignant woman hater, just a dim virtue signaller trying to fit in with the woke brigade. You have given him an excellent dose of reality. Well done!

I think the OP is down for good reason: I know I should feel better that he apologized and agreed but it really bothers me how quick men are to brand women the slurs like terf.

This isn't a bad man, yet he thoughtlessly jumped on the misogynistic bandwagon. The OP won this battle but it shouldn't have arisen in the first place if men routinely treated women fully as equals.

JK is a bit of a trigger with some people. As a pp said, as lot of the younger generation really dislike her now.
Though it’s not always men who jump to the slurs. I didn’t realise that my DD (19) hated her until Christmas Day, as I’d got her the new jk book - not realising it was a kids book! Oops!
Whereas DS (22) bought me a woman = adult human female mug.

Well done, Vespa. You won a victory for women and may have deepened your friendship with your flatmate. Misogyny is so ingrained in younger people that he probably didn’t realise he was being offensive. You’ve eoken him up and, with luck, he will spread this to other friends. Every victory like your chips away at the structure of misogyny.

It’s a bit early for so have a from us on this thread.

Like others, OP, I think you've done a good job there. Yes, the default sexism is depressing. But we know it's not unusual.

And it's good that more people are becoming aware of the issue. Despite the fact that many have a knee-jerk reaction, there are enough outlets like media sources, political groups and GC people out there, now, putting forward the facts.

It may feel like slow progress, but it's an awful lot quicker than it was. The tanker has been turned around. It will take time, but that's because it's so massive.

Well done. Don't be down. You're in the sunlight, pulling people in with you.

Very well done, OP. I'm sorry you were upset.

I think I know how you feel - it feels invasive and unfair to have to spell out why women may have a fear response to males. It should be understood without us having to reveal personal history.

And the fact that some people will then further attack women ('capitalise on their sexual assault history - Judith Butler, 'weaponise their history of dv', that plank of a Labour MP) is beyond the pale, but perhaps illustrates how afraid people are that women will tell the truth. And thus shows how powerful personal testimony can be.

Don't let them shut us up. Keep talking.

Well done op - you did way better than me. 3 of my friends, (one of whom would call herself a feminist, has run careers events for teenage girls and donates to an overseas girls charity) wouldn’t accept any of my points - no Karen White, males in sports, JKRs abuse, excessive numbers of girls affected - the only concession I got was no men in women’s toilets. They put it all down to outliers, bad things happen, stop looking at twitter for horrid people.

I was unprepared for that conversation then but many months later, from the extensive discussions on here I am much clearer on why the issues I brought up are important.

The sad thing is, if they understood the implications for their daughters of what was going on they’d be be horrified.

Nah. I don't blame anyone outside the actual nitty gritty of this issue to think that some women are anti trans and that's as bad as racism. They believe the rainbow people because why wouldn't they? The rainbow people are goodies and stand against prejudice.

This is turning an oil tanker. We have to accept that many of our intelligent, well read friends are starting from `omg imagine excluding trans people just because of who they are', because the people who they trust and listen to are saying that.

Your friend sounds like a normal, decent person. He listened, evaluated the new information you gave him, and came to a fresh conclusion. Massive win.

Could someone please send me the link for the JK essay? Many thanks xx

@biddie191

www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/

There you go

Thank you x