Eddie Izzard...

[Mrsmorton]

Has announced new pronouns.

Again, apologies if this is being discussed already.

"They're not women's clothes, they're my clothes" seems to have been lost in the mists of time.

I understand standing on an all women shortlist to be an MP is a possible incentive.

Really?????

Ach, at least he’s showing us who he is. Ready to trample on actual women in order to get what he wants.

That is privileged masculine behaviour, however anyone identifies.

Why do men constantly disappoint?

I would love an Ovarit code too please. I'm so fed up of censoring myself on every platform in case I offend someone with GC views. I'm SO tired of women and girls being told to either 'shut the fuck up' or 'be kind' while we hand over our hard-won rights to anyone who feels a little flicker of 'woman' in their still intact testicles.

What's Ovarit?

@cateycloggs it was me who posted about having a teen daughter and how I demurred over her views on trans issues. Your views are very welcome, and don’t feel that non-parents have no voice here.

(Though this is off the particular topic now being discussed) she has adopted LGBTQI+ rights as her cause, all letters without discrimination. It’s not unlike how I adopted nuclear disarmament as my cause when I was 14, and my niece became a militant vegan at the same age. In many ways, I believe in allowing her to develop her own critical thinking, but feel she is not mature enough to accept my critiquing of her views, so I am mild and considered in expressing my own. Her dad (exh) is a barrister and argues every point with her in a win/lose manner, which I see as bullying behaviour. So I do feel a duty to let her find her own voice, but I’m not sure she or I are ready for the conversation that is about male risk in female-safe spaces. I am not sure if I sound wimpy and hand-wringing saying that, but in principal I want her to be empathetic and entitled to her views while in my heart I hope she discovers her inner feminist and doesn’t abdicate hard-fought rights by giving away our spaces.

On one of Grayson Perry's programmers he interviewed a group of cross-dressers who meet in up in a private house. He joked with them "what's the difference between a cross dresser and a transwoman?" "About 2 years"

Grayson Perry seems to be one of the rare men who realises what he is and does.

Is that because his wife is a psychoanalyst? And that he has some respect for women, and a keen and self-aware intelligence?

I hope so.

I am actually dying because some wokester on FB is insisting that Eddie is female
I mean I don’t think even Eddie thinks Eddie is actually female

I agree MissLucyEyelesbarrow

It's disappointing that blatant sexism becomes invisible if it's concealed by a rainbow.

Lesbian groups have been intentionally targeted to end female only provision, or sex based/female homosexual groups. There are no few that ended up disbanding, or moving underground and no longer advertising their presence in order to be able to continue providing a female only group supporting female lesbians.

@MichelleofzeResistance every time I read about this I could weep. It’s not my world, but I know from my more activist past as a baby feminist in the late 1970s just how much us straight women owed then - and now - to lesbians.

It makes me so angry that lesbians are being hit this way. Would we condone such homophobic treatment of gay men? Would we, heck.

For those interested in Ovarit you can DM them on Twitter for a code.

@MrsDeadlock I've learnt so much from this board too and I'm very grateful to MN for hosting it.

But Ovarit looks like a space where you can really let your hair down and take your bra off .

I can do Ovarit invites if anyone needs one - PM me.

I used to admire Eddie and found him very funny - not any more.
What struck me watching Portrait Artist, was the effort that people were having to put in to make themselves say "she" when everything in their being must have been telling them they were wrong.

The thing that upsets me is that Izzard was proudly a straight man who didn't buy into gender norms, he was apparently happily being a man wearing whatever he wanted.

Compare his current behaviour with the gorgeous and adorable Robert Webb who is consistently intelligent about gendered roles and stereotypes, and critical of them for both men and women.

But doesn’t feel the need to appropriate women’s words or spaces.

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

What's Ovarit?

It's a feminist forum that was set up after Gender Critical got banned on Reddit. You can talk uncensored about gender ideology and the effects it is having on women and girls. You don't have to tiptoe around topics.

I truly appreciate mumsnet and all the posters here, I just find there's less worry (and less frustration) on Ovarit about your posts being taken down for 'causing offense' by telling the truth.

@PickleC

I gave up on Eddie after telling the story about awful, bullying, nasty teenage girls who queried why he was in the ladies toilets.

Or in other words young girls who had every right to feel threatened/uncomfortable when a much older person of the opposite sex was changing in sex specific facilities in which they should have felt absolutely safe

The lack of empathy was chilling.

He's a selfish egotistical pŕick.

There are more than a few easily accessible online articles where Grayson Perry explains dressing up "as a woman" is sexually thrilling for him.

Thank you for your welcome message TinaTurnoff, I have been away from computer so did not see it earlier. Also now indulging in bad habit of staying up far too late - I did say I am not a parent.

I have been meaning to say about the Portrait Artist programme, I had been following it and was under the impression this week was the final, did not realise there was another round before the final. Having read the critiques here I am glad not to bother as it seems both the artists and judges were constrained. I do not think the best artist has gone through to the final and wonder if the dancer Acosta will consider he is wasting his time when he sees the result? Very frustrating for someone who is so physical and disciplined to agree to keep still for hours for what may be a mediocre result. Obviously that is just my personal opinion, as is that I never bothered watching the previous 2 winner's portrait sessions as as in those cases I did not consider them worthy of having a portrait publicly commissioned or hung.

It makes my stomach heave to think of an (unattractive, personal opnion) middle-aged man being able to state so publically without mockery that he is in 'girl' mode. Apart from the politics of it , a middle-aged woman presenting in similar way in public would be torn apart. The double standards are outrageous similar to how B.Jonson has installed a younger girl friend and child with little if any criticism. Imagine if T May had done similarly when PM - left her husband for a younger man, maybe one with children with his wife and lived at no 10. No, can't imagine it, can we?

'B.Jonson has installed a younger girl friend and child with little if any criticism'

????

It's a massive joke/ WTF that he won't say how many kids he has! Jokes about condoms abound. When he got engaged before he was divorced it hardly went unnoticed!

I see the Guardian only ran the story late last night... wondered what had taken them so long. With added praise from Stonewall, to boot!

Radio silence from Izzard still. Guess he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t at this point.

[quote TinaTurnoff]@cateycloggs it was me who posted about having a teen daughter and how I demurred over her views on trans issues. Your views are very welcome, and don’t feel that non-parents have no voice here.

(Though this is off the particular topic now being discussed) she has adopted LGBTQI+ rights as her cause, all letters without discrimination. It’s not unlike how I adopted nuclear disarmament as my cause when I was 14, and my niece became a militant vegan at the same age. In many ways, I believe in allowing her to develop her own critical thinking, but feel she is not mature enough to accept my critiquing of her views, so I am mild and considered in expressing my own. Her dad (exh) is a barrister and argues every point with her in a win/lose manner, which I see as bullying behaviour. So I do feel a duty to let her find her own voice, but I’m not sure she or I are ready for the conversation that is about male risk in female-safe spaces. I am not sure if I sound wimpy and hand-wringing saying that, but in principal I want her to be empathetic and entitled to her views while in my heart I hope she discovers her inner feminist and doesn’t abdicate hard-fought rights by giving away our spaces.[/quote]
How is she being exposed to feminist voices to develop her inner feminist if her main female role model isnt leading the way? You dont have to attack her views, just ask her questions, give her room to develop critical thought. How can she do that if you're leaving her to her echo chamber and never engaging?

I learnt far more about why I believed a certain thing (& stuck to it) by my father and grandfather taking the piss and making me answer the hard questions than I did from my mother's hand wringing and exhortations that everyone get along.
And yes, you do sound wimpy.

Her dad (exh) is a barrister and argues every point with her in a win/lose manner, which I see as bullying behaviour

Depends how he is doing it, obviously. If he is humiliating or belittling her, then I agree it's bullying. But, if not, he is doing her the most massive favour - one of the greatest life skills is to be able to put together and defend a rational argument.

When headlines say “Izzard chooses she/her pronouns” what that actually means is “Izzard chooses to compel other people to only talk about Izzard (when Izzard isn’t there) in a way that denies truth.”

I refuse to comply. I will not be compelled to deny the material reality I see for the sake of someone I will never meet being unhappy about a conversation they will never even hear.

Thank you yourhairiswinterfire. (Great name by the way.)

(Ovarit is a great name for a website but I meant your name.)

(Too many brackets now..)

I learnt far more about why I believed a certain thing (& stuck to it) by my father and grandfather taking the piss and making me answer the hard questions than I did from my mother's hand wringing and exhortations that everyone get along.
And yes, you do sound wimpy.

I disagree. People are different and respond in different ways.

Tinaturnoff can only parent her own daughter. She sounds as though she knows what she is doing.

I'm quite enjoying the LACK of fawning from a number of respected female comedians.