Amnesty - “no such thing as a biologically male/female body”

[NellieEllie]

A week ago I saw that Amnesty had responded to a complaint about the open letter signed in Ireland and in that response had said the above.
I wrote to Amnesty as a long time supporter and queried whether this was their official stance, and have today received a reply.
This is an extract - see esp para 3.

“We stand over the letter, which we signed to stand in solidarity with the trans community and against those spreading hate.

There are attempts to decontextualise certain phrases used in the letter in a way that misleads and confuses people, which is a common tactic used against many of our human rights campaigns. For example, the letter asks for media and politicians to not give legitimacy to those spreading vitriol or misinformation. This is being framed as a call to take away their political representation, which anyone reading the letter will clearly see is not what it means.

Another example is the letter’s referring to those ‘defending biology’. Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights. There is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’ - a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender. Those that seek to exclude and disenfranchise groups of people, or force people into one gender or their other on that basis, are working against basic human rights principles.

We feel much of the current media reporting and conversations on social media with regards to self-identification is misguided. Restricting the rights of transgender people, and omitting the use of inclusive language will not advance or protect women’s rights.“

I was hoping that it was a case of an earnest woke teen manning the social media account, but clearly not.
How can they promote such doublespeak? Their last magazine was full of references to women in developing countries - do they REALLY think that there is no such class? “A person’s genitalia does not determine gender” is a separate statement - but they are conflating the two and specifically denying biology.

I am so wearied by this nonsense.

That doesn't even make sense.

Insane.

No

I meant - No, it doesn’t make sense!

I am not a convert to this ideological belief.

I believe there is a biologically male or female body, that sex is binary, that medical differences of development happen to a tiny proportion of the population and do not change that sex is binary any more than babies born with variations in leg development change that humans are bipedal. I believe in objective reality, and that facts create reality, not feelings, and this is necessary for any shared meaning between people.

I also believe in religious tolerance, and not forcibly trying to evangelise and convert others to ones own personal beliefs, or to state them as the One Truth. Which is extremely disrespectful to others.

Unless you plan to call them heretics and punish them accordingly. Which would put you in rather interesting categories and historic company.

I am a mix of gobsmacked and angry. No such thing as a biological sex? I feel so worn down by it all. You should send that to Piers Morgan..he'd have a field day (I actually mean that).

a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender

But without question is does determine biological sex.

Once again I am reminded of the fabulous ManiacMagpie and her lone protests in Cambridge. From one of her threads:

"I had one couple who gave me the full bingo: when I talked about how it was female people who were barred from Cambridge back in the day, they said that transwomen couldn't go to Cambridge either, then when I said but the world saw them as male so they would have been able to even if they didn't feel so inside they just said that male and female isn't real, it's a construct because intersex, the lot. When I asked if they could look me in the eye and say that they didn't know which one of their parents impregnated the other - however they identified and whether or not they are trans - they yelled at me some more, then walked away saying I was pathetic for spending my time on this."

And that is the crux of it. Your biology doesn't determine your identity, but to say that there is no such thing as a biologically male or female body is clearly nonsense

"spreading hate"? Was it written by a nine-year-old?

"Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights. There is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’ - a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender."

... the actual fuck?
They don't understand what they're arguing, do they?

Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights. There is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’ - a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender.

Oh ffs. What stupidity. There may indeed be no biologically determined masculine/feminine gender but our bodies are, immutably, sexed. I can't self-determine my body as male any more than I can self-determine it to be 5'5" tall or self-determine the colour of my skin.

This is utterly contemptible.

Amnesty.

How do I self-determine my body? I mean, I'd like to be able to fly. I'd like it if my fat didn't all go on my thighs. I'd like to be able to go invisible when I feel like it. Which bastard isn't "allowing" me to have this body?

Forward it to Janice Turner at the Times. She might enjoy taking the issue up with them.

archive.is/glPXl#selection-1561.0-1561.202
This is the letter that Amnesty is now claiming is taken out of context. It is rambling but the meaning is clear.
Amnesty knows how relevant biology is in developing countries.
But in developed countries they think it is okay to refer to women who defend this reality as "pseudo feminists".

As the saying has it, there's no arguing with stupid.

Or in Amnesty's case, no arguing with those so terminally stupid I think they may well meet the clinical criteria for brain death.

It's terrifying. It's like a secular, left wing version of "young earth creationism."

These people are fecking deranged.

@Shedbuilder

Forward it to Janice Turner at the Times. She might enjoy taking the issue up with them.

I was coming back to say you should send this letter to the Mail or the Times.

So basically there’s no such thing as biological sex only trans people (the superior species) and non trans (the plebs).

That is basically what they are saying

Dear Amnesty,
Where do babies come from? Is there any pattern to establishing which subset of human beings may get pregnant as a result of rape in conflict zones, and which subset of human beings who are (though undoubtedly extremely traumatised by their experiences) seemingly immune to getting pregnant? In countries which ban all abortions including for medical reasons (eg Nicaragua) are all human beings equally at risk of dying from withheld treatment for an ectopic pregnancy, or does that risk only pertain to approximately half of the population (and then only between the ages of approx 12 and 50)? Are the people in positions of political power making decisions banning abortion typically drawn from th 50% of the population mysteriously at risk of pregnancy or are they typically drawn from the 50% of the population miraculously immune to pregnancy?

I await your answers with keen anticipation.

Yours, etc...

So dumb - just mind-blowingly fucking thick.

If there's no such thing as biological sex then what are people transing from?

And then just straight up lying. Contemptable. They have zero credibility.

I'm so confused, I thought sex and gender were two different things. I read to mean we can decide what sex we are. But I don't see how? Am I now transphobic because I understand these things to be different. My brain hurts.

This is such an awful thing now, doubling down on lies and bullshit. It’s hurting the world.

The biggest tragedy is that people will stop (many have already stopped) donating to this idiot ‘organization' and then they will have fewer resources to help the GIRLS and WOMEN living in poverty and raped and abused by MEN.

No such thing as biological male and female sex?

I can't deal with this shot any more.

Do they even believe that or is it (as I suspect) just the latest bandwagon to jump on? The latest way to get publicity?

Biological sex is real.
Gender stereotypes are what's bollocks. That's what needs addressing. That the idea of gender is so fixed that people can more easily believe that their penis is female or their vagina is male than they can accept that 'gender' isn't real.

And yes, as double halo points out, if there’s no such thing as biological sex, what are people transing to/from? How can anyone be non-binary?