Amnesty - “no such thing as a biologically male/female body”

[NellieEllie]

A week ago I saw that Amnesty had responded to a complaint about the open letter signed in Ireland and in that response had said the above.
I wrote to Amnesty as a long time supporter and queried whether this was their official stance, and have today received a reply.
This is an extract - see esp para 3.

“We stand over the letter, which we signed to stand in solidarity with the trans community and against those spreading hate.

There are attempts to decontextualise certain phrases used in the letter in a way that misleads and confuses people, which is a common tactic used against many of our human rights campaigns. For example, the letter asks for media and politicians to not give legitimacy to those spreading vitriol or misinformation. This is being framed as a call to take away their political representation, which anyone reading the letter will clearly see is not what it means.

Another example is the letter’s referring to those ‘defending biology’. Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights. There is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’ - a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender. Those that seek to exclude and disenfranchise groups of people, or force people into one gender or their other on that basis, are working against basic human rights principles.

We feel much of the current media reporting and conversations on social media with regards to self-identification is misguided. Restricting the rights of transgender people, and omitting the use of inclusive language will not advance or protect women’s rights.“

I was hoping that it was a case of an earnest woke teen manning the social media account, but clearly not.
How can they promote such doublespeak? Their last magazine was full of references to women in developing countries - do they REALLY think that there is no such class? “A person’s genitalia does not determine gender” is a separate statement - but they are conflating the two and specifically denying biology.

I am so wearied by this nonsense.

The World has gone mad.
People are Male or Female, and your DNA is either XX or XY
A trans woman boxer broke the skull of an XX woman, completely male musculature with a powerful punch, but allowed to fight biological women. So wrong in my opinion.

@VioletteSnow

This is such an awful thing now, doubling down on lies and bullshit. It’s hurting the world.

The biggest tragedy is that people will stop (many have already stopped) donating to this idiot ‘organization' and then they will have fewer resources to help the GIRLS and WOMEN living in poverty and raped and abused by MEN.

Yes.

But.

We can donate to women's orgs instead. Not the organisation that seems more focused on the self-styled needs of punters than the women they exploit.

Anything that focuses on a women's issue in other countries, knows what a woman is. The FGM organisations, the obstetric fistula organisations, the organisations that work to rescue women from prostitution.

I also believe in religious tolerance, and not forcibly trying to evangelise and convert others to ones own personal beliefs, or to state them as the One Truth.

You're right Michelle, it is evangelism

@Mollyollydolly

Send it to Piers Morgan, Douglas Murray, and Janice Turner. That is insane.

I've been wondering how that would play out. I see huge pluses in their breaking down the BS and also in bringing this out of the Irish sphere which is small and peopled (almost exclusively) by cowardly media. I can't decide how the so-called Feminists Ire (self-appointed mouthpiece of Irish feminists) would react. Best result would be total implosion at the audacity of the Brits at speaking on anything happening in Ireland. Worst result, an excuse for outpourings of irrational hate and bigotry whilst bolstering their unfounded belief that all the GC women of Ireland are part of a British invasion of some sort (as I said, irrational rantings).

Any thoughts from those who have been following this since "the letter" issued by the self-appointed mouthpieces towards the end of the Repeal campaign?

@Collidascope

How do I self-determine my body? I mean, I'd like to be able to fly. I'd like it if my fat didn't all go on my thighs. I'd like to be able to go invisible when I feel like it. Which bastard isn't "allowing" me to have this body?

I'm pretty sure it's Julie Bindel's fault. #IBlameJulieBindel

I think it is very interesting watching this play out with Iseult White. I believe she campaigned for the bill for self id that was past.

That she find this a step too far towards silencing freedom of speech is telling.

I don’t get this

How can they say there is no such thing as a biological male or female body

It’s beyond any rational thought that someone would write that

Unfucking unbelievable.

Blimey flip they’ve gone totally off the reservation 😳

From: your genitalia do not determine your gender
Seamlessly to: trans identified children will kill themselves if they are not enabled to take medication preventing the development of their secondary sex characteristics.

How do they not disappear in a puff of verbose contradiction?

No such thing as biological sex unless we are talking surrogacy then suddenly we know exactly who is which biological sex.

@Aesopfable

No such thing as biological sex unless we are talking surrogacy then suddenly we know exactly who is which biological sex.

Or prostitution, when penis owners miraculously know exactly what sort of genitalia they want to pay for in order to override consent. (As is their human right, according to Amnesty.)

We stand over this letter? What the fuck, are they peeing on it?

It’s a bit mystifying, this biological sex that winks in and out of existence depending on whether it’s useful for shitting on women or not, eh? Positively metaphysical.

@ArabellaScott

We stand over this letter? What the fuck, are they peeing on it?

Yes, I clocked that, too. I imagined it more as standing over it with a sword, ready to do battle.

Or prostitution, when penis owners miraculously know exactly what sort of genitalia they want to pay for in order to override consent. (As is their human right, according to Amnesty.)

If it's discrimination in the workplace if I won't let a male do my smear, then surely it is discrimination (against the protected characteristic of gender reassignment) in the workplace if a punter rejects a transwoman?

This idea is absolutely orthodox in lefty circles now. I saw a thread on Twitter the other day from a scientist that claimed to be 'decolonizing' biology and sex by saying that all kinds of chromosomal variations are quote 'normal'. XX, XY, XXX (yes, those are indeed common variations) but also XXYY, XYYYY, XXXX and a whole bunch of other combinations that are apparently 'normal'.

I think it's good to 'normalise' chromosomal variations so that people with unusual chromosomal conditions feel accepted, as with any kind of health condition, but to say that XXYY syndrome is as normal a chromosomal occurrence as XY or XX is just disingenuous. XXYY syndrome a condition that is quite debilitating and disrupts male sexual development and causes infertility. That's not 'normal' - that's an illness.

All of this is about manipulating scientific information in the service of a social / political ideal and that kind of scientific endeavour has never ended well.

@PotholeParadies

Or prostitution, when penis owners miraculously know exactly what sort of genitalia they want to pay for in order to override consent. (As is their human right, according to Amnesty.)

If it's discrimination in the workplace if I won't let a male do my smear, then surely it is discrimination (against the protected characteristic of gender reassignment) in the workplace if a punter rejects a transwoman?

Yes, they should do a campaign.

It really is time somebody called out all the straight men who wouldn't entertain the thought of a transwomen for relationship purposes. Because that is basic exclusion.

Or for not accepting a penis owner as their surrogate.

What a load of auld shite. Christ.

The only way forward to me is to redefine gender. Gender was once synonymous with biological sex. The problem is that in recent years gender has come to mean what 'sex' one presents themselves as. Since gender is entirely a social construct it's pretty meaningless and the only real truth is one's biological sex. So Amnesty is probably right when they say gender isn't defined by biological sex. I wish we could just do away with the word gender altogether and stick to biological facts.

I think it's good to 'normalise' chromosomal variations so that people with unusual chromosomal conditions feel accepted, as with any kind of health condition, but to say that XXYY syndrome is as normal a chromosomal occurrence as XY or XX is just disingenuous. XXYY syndrome a condition that is quite debilitating and disrupts male sexual development and causes infertility. That's not 'normal' - that's an illness.

Quite - friends of mine have a lovely son with multiple copies of the X chromosome. Their big worry for him is the fact that he suffers from global developmental delay and looks unlikely ever to be able to live independently. I don't imagine they give a second thought to where he is on the unicorn sparkles gendah spectrum. He (bless him) is incapable of giving a first thought to where he is on the unicorn sparkles gendah spectrum. (Though I'm glad to say he's now a dab hand on his balance bike, and has quite a few signs at his disposal!)

For a very long letter it managed not to address any of the arguments, facts or data supplied by the GC feminists they decry, but simply made unevidenced assertion after assertion.

I was a member of Amnesty for years but haven't donated since it became apparent that they'd lost the plot - I've neither the money nor the will to keep them in green ink

They may think they are great on human rights, but they are shit at biology.

Oh Amnesty. What went wrong? When did you shove your heads so far up your own arse?

Of course women exist and suffer disproportionately because of their sex in countries across the globe. You've known this for decades.

When I was a student they did Good Things. This was 30 years ago. Not sure when it all went wrong.