Amnesty - “no such thing as a biologically male/female body”

[NellieEllie]

A week ago I saw that Amnesty had responded to a complaint about the open letter signed in Ireland and in that response had said the above.
I wrote to Amnesty as a long time supporter and queried whether this was their official stance, and have today received a reply.
This is an extract - see esp para 3.

“We stand over the letter, which we signed to stand in solidarity with the trans community and against those spreading hate.

There are attempts to decontextualise certain phrases used in the letter in a way that misleads and confuses people, which is a common tactic used against many of our human rights campaigns. For example, the letter asks for media and politicians to not give legitimacy to those spreading vitriol or misinformation. This is being framed as a call to take away their political representation, which anyone reading the letter will clearly see is not what it means.

Another example is the letter’s referring to those ‘defending biology’. Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights. There is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’ - a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender. Those that seek to exclude and disenfranchise groups of people, or force people into one gender or their other on that basis, are working against basic human rights principles.

We feel much of the current media reporting and conversations on social media with regards to self-identification is misguided. Restricting the rights of transgender people, and omitting the use of inclusive language will not advance or protect women’s rights.“

I was hoping that it was a case of an earnest woke teen manning the social media account, but clearly not.
How can they promote such doublespeak? Their last magazine was full of references to women in developing countries - do they REALLY think that there is no such class? “A person’s genitalia does not determine gender” is a separate statement - but they are conflating the two and specifically denying biology.

I am so wearied by this nonsense.

Is it Amnesty International UK or Amnesty International that sent that letter?

Amnesty International Ireland.

A person’s genitalia does not determine gender

Is true enough.

Unfortunately, they then conflate sex and gender. Like usual. Despite knowing they are different, and saying this.

One phrase in that letter really rang a bell. It reminded me of this (which caused another hoo-ha from a few months ago)

"ActionAid UK understands there is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’, and that a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender."

The exact same phrase. I wonder where they both copied it from.

Apols of someone else already noted it, I haven't read the whole thread.

In Amnesty-land, the only women who are oppressed purely for being women are brown women in first world countries where we are so sophisticated that common or garden misogyny doesn't exist.

Nice white men in first world countries can be absolutely trusted to not access women's toilets in order to rape and sexually assault them - it's only brown men in third world countries who do that sort of thing.

Equally, women and girls being bought and sold as sex slaves is only a thing that happens in the third world. Women in the first world are happy hooker sex workers, happy to fuck tens of men a day because they have the freedom of choice!

I could go on but you get my drift. Amnesty is a disgustingly xenophobic racist organisation basically and is completely unfit for purpose.

I used to support it when it was about political and intellectual freedom when I was a teenager. What happened?

So angry that that first paragraph makes no sense:

In Amnesty-land, the only women who are oppressed purely for being women are brown women in third world countries while in first world countries we are so sophisticated that common or garden misogyny doesn't exist.

I'm curious about how all of this will translate on a business level. I work in marketing and if I were to put my work hat on, many of the lost donators are more likely to be from a middle class demographic, those who have loyally supported for many years. Will these type of moves attract new sponsors at the same levels? And will they be of a similar demographic - I really don't think so.

@CaraDuneRedux

As the saying has it, there's no arguing with stupid.

Or in Amnesty's case, no arguing with those so terminally stupid I think they may well meet the clinical criteria for brain death.

It's terrifying. It's like a secular, left wing version of "young earth creationism."

I wish people would stop calling this nonsense 'leftwing'. Socialism is about economic justice , not this pseudo mystical mumbo jumbo mind rot.

1000000% everything Clymene just said. The racism behind all of this is so overt it blows my mind how they can be so brazen about it and still not get called out.

Also, isn't it fascinating how bodily autonomy and self determination are held absolutely sacrosanct when the issue in question is men having breat implants, but not when it's Rachel Dolzeal having her skin pigmented. I sure don't remember anyone rallying round her insisting that her right to self determination was critical to the fulfillment of all other human rights or that stopping white women in general from presenting as black was the first step towards removing abortion rights or anything like that. Now can anyone think why that might be? Truly it's a head scratcher.

Subject of racism and recognising what a woman is: medium.com/@AngelNdukaNwosu/why-nigerian-women-must-terf-too-715dfdd6c3fa

It really is beyond belief. I’m at that point where I just don’t know how much more I/ we can take. How can we function when we’re being gaslighted (gaslit?!) on a global scale? Someone upthread asked what it will take for this to stop. I don’t know but every hopeful moment - like Keira Bell - is tempered by another dark one. I hoped we’d see reflection after that ruling, but all I can see is people doubling down.

Lots of good points well made.

I haven't trusted Amnesty since they went massively anti-Semitic.

eg. www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/amnesty-intl-rejects-motion-to-combat-record-high-anti-semitism - this was 5 years ago. They have also employed an anti-Semite, Kristyan Benedict, in a top post since at least 2012.

It's interesting that most people have focused on the line about biologically male/female, but equally bizarre is the claim that "Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights."

I mean, since when was denying that women or men exist a basic principle of feminism? Or human rights?

I'm struggling to understand what Amnesty thinks feminism is, or what it's for, if they don't think there is a separate class of people called women, who are treated worse than the class of people called men in various ways.

Why do they think it's called feminism??

@IloveJKRowling

Good point littl - if there's no such thing as male or female sex then we don't need puberty blockers, right?

This is the fundamental stupidity of what they're arguing. If gender isn't connected to the sexed body then why change the body?

I wish people would stop calling this nonsense 'leftwing'. Socialism is about economic justice , not this pseudo mystical mumbo jumbo mind rot.

I said that as a lefty myself. It breaks my heart, but it is the left who go in for this sort of science denialism (Lysenko, anyone?). You're right that left wing politics should be rooted in material reality - but there's a substantial subsection of the left who have lost sight of that, and at the moment their voices are loudest.

The right of course tend to attract th religious science denialists.

@VetiverAndLavender

It is complete and utter insanity.

Sometimes I wonder what the tipping point is with this nonsense. Will everyone eventually be beaten (or at least brow-beaten) into submission, or will something happen to wake people up and make them decide enough is enough and that it's time to stop denying the obvious biological truth. Or will it just sort of whimper away gradually, when something else comes along to obsess over, and this is shoved out of the spotlight? Will people look back and ask, "What were they thinking?!"

It will happen. Newer generations always reject what the previous ones believed and those rebelling against the ideology will start to be the edgy, cool people. Non-binaries especially will just quietly retreat to their previous selves once they're not at universities with people who have time to validate them.

Plus there will eventually be a lot of angry detransitioners suing the hell out of doctors and girls pissed off at boys taking their sporting prizes.

Have been helping run a local group for nearly 20 years now and am on my very last shred of goodwill. The only thing keeping me in now is how much friendship I feel for the other members and how I can direct what we work on because I am getting angrier and angrier about the direction of campaigning.

One of my first campaigns for them was Stop Violence Against Women. They have run campaigns on trafficking, on abortion, concerns at violence if women in refugee camps try to access toilets at night.....and yet prostitution now presented like a viable work choice, sex based rights go out the window, self ID is accepted blindly, women told they have no right to political representation if they commit thought crime by Amnesty Ireland, biological truth is shunted to one side.

This is in no way the organisation it used to be and in pushing western gender ideology it reduces its effectiveness, and respect and trust around the world. We were told 20 years back that the whole aim was to never force a westernised view onto human rights. More fool me for believing that would continue to be the case

@Byllis

It strikes me more and more that I just can't grasp these ideas. This is nothing to do with being pro or anti anything, just having a basic handle on the concepts under discussion. Also, the ideas either seem to continually evolve or other people don't get them either so how they talk about them changes. At a fundamental level I don't understand what the categories of woman and man are if they don't at least relate in some way to a concept that has been known as biological sex.

I like to think I can get my head around fairly complex ideas. I'm educated. I read and engage with ideas. But I'm not bright enough to 'get' this.

Yet the message is that it's so obvious and right that all decent people agree and accept.

They are deliberately confusing - they alter the meaning of language - definitions change daily - their lies are obscured by meaningless waffle.

It's all psychobabble.

What a bunch of morons they show themselves as.

@Manderleyagain

One phrase in that letter really rang a bell. It reminded me of this (which caused another hoo-ha from a few months ago)

"ActionAid UK understands there is no such thing as a ‘biologically female/male body’, and that a person’s genitalia doesn’t determine their gender."

The exact same phrase. I wonder where they both copied it from.

Apols of someone else already noted it, I haven't read the whole thread.

ActionAid said this bit too:

“Allowing self-determination of our bodies is a basic principle of feminism and human rights."

I remember remarking on it, in my letter to them.

They 'stand over the letter'? is that a typo?

do they mean they stand by the letter?

They definitely are firmly standing over the letter. They must be very cross and are trying to intimidate the letter. Or they are standing in very bright light and can't see, so are casting a shadow on it to enable them to read it.

I am not sure.

Have other people already seen this?

www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/amnesty-international-uk-and-liberty-joint-statement-puberty-blockers

I am so, so, so done with Amnesty. How dare they position supporting medical negligence as the fucking moral high ground.

Children are human. They have fucking human rights. Those rights include the right not to be a test subject for treatments to which they cannot form meaningful consent.

Whatever your stance on trans issues, the only appropriate reaction as a human rights activist is "this clinic was not following best practice. I am deeply sorry that this happened to Keira and I hope the NHS can overhaul this clinic so it serves its patients better. This situation should never happen again".

Why? Because children matter.

Bloody hell. Amnesty have gone full crazy.

They can get to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more when they get there.

Haven't rtft, but it would be interesting to know how many people have abandoned amnesty because of this bullshit.
Me, for 1.
And how many more would do so if they knew what was going on.

Am I misremembering, or did the paedophile information exchange (PIE), become Liberty?