Impact of 2-child benefit cap on abortion decisions

[niceberg]

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/03/two-child-limit-on-benefits-a-key-factor-in-many-abortion-decisions-says-charity

This was inevitable and as such must have been seen as an acceptable outcome by the government when it was introduced.

Come off it. You clearly think women are stupid.

You're going to blame feminists for women deciding that the state should coerce abortion and have women disclosing rape to bureaucrats.

There's literally nothing that isn't the fault of feminists in your eyes is there.

I would put it down to people feeling more comfortable expressing how they really feel in the desire of Brexit.

Racism, misogyny etc these views never went away people just felt they were better off not expressing them for a while.

In the wake of Brexit

That should say

This is what the government wanted though, people (women) to think about how they would support their/ any new children.

I think I agree if you are on benefits, the benefits is a set amount and doesn't increase with extra children like people's wages don't automatically increase if they have a child. But if I read this correct from other posts, I do think if the children are already born and you go onto benefits through unemployment, illness etc. all children should covered and not limited.

Women (and families) still have a choice of whether to abort or not, and unfortunately financial circumstances and stability has always been a factor for some women keeping their babies, even before abortion was legalised in the U.K.

Bollocks, jj.

I can remember and recognise usernames, even if you can't, and I know the difference in between the subculture of AIBU, Chat, and FWR.

Don't try and pin it on feminists that some people have no empathy for women in coercive relationships.

@PearPickingPorky
No reason other than contraception being mostly hormonal, which many women can't tolerate, or has quite significant side effects

Thank you for making this point on behalf of all the real women out there. Not that those on here insisting how easily women can avoid unplanned pregnancies will care, but many women can't use oral contraceptives or other convenient contraceptive methods because of medical reasons. I think we should just all stop having sex until the menopause, maybe that will make them happy

@NiceGerbil

Come off it. You clearly think women are stupid.

You're going to blame feminists for women deciding that the state should coerce abortion and have women disclosing rape to bureaucrats.

There's literally nothing that isn't the fault of feminists in your eyes is there.

Also as a number of posters have said a number of times

The FWR board doesn't have a lock on it, anyone from any part of the site is allowed to post which is a good thing (although there will always be exceptions, personally if i despised and hated a board id keep off it)

As posters keep reminding us only 7 percent of women say they are feminist so why anyone would think that wouldn't be the same on mumsnet (or close) is absolutely beyond me

Hardly any posters on this thread have said they are feminist

I think its absolutely the right decision. There are far too many people having children ikea litters of puppies just to claim benefits. I've always worked hard but I could only afford childcare for one child so I only had one child.

@madcatladyforever

I think its absolutely the right decision. There are far too many people having children ikea litters of puppies just to claim benefits. I've always worked hard but I could only afford childcare for one child so I only had one child.

According to @jj1968 you should have just quit work, gone on benefits and had as many as you wanted.

Aye, women go through pregnancy (never been so ill in my life), childbirth, night wakings, and the relentless mental load of looking after children day-in, day-out, over and over and over for benefits.

Nah.

Even if they did, why should children in a developed country like the UK go hungry because they have too many siblings?

itispersonal

I think you might be overlooking the fact that the majority of child tax credits, which is the benefit affected by the two child limit, is paid to people in work.

Also the majority of children living in poverty live in working households. The two child limit affects a far wider range of people than just the unemployed.

Litters of puppies :/

Women who have more than two children are like animals. Bitches to be precise.

It's long been a thing to put unwanted puppies in a bag and Chuck them in the canal. Cheap and easy option. The bitches get over it.

Of course they can always be taken for sterilisation to stop them doing it again.

Glad to see we're getting to the nuts and bolts of this.

I agree it’s absolutely the right decision to cap at two. Benefits are not funded from an infinite pot of money. I’m left leaning politically but I think people should have some responsibility for ensuring they don’t get pregnant if they can’t afford to raise a child by them self and we cannot consider every possible circumstance for why they haven’t been able to do this. The benefits system is complicated enough without having some low paid unqualified office worker deciding if you’re circumstances and evidence are special enough to qualify for a third child benefit payment. Too many people lie to get money as well.

[quote Prestel]@PearPickingPorky
No reason other than contraception being mostly hormonal, which many women can't tolerate, or has quite significant side effects

Thank you for making this point on behalf of all the real women out there. Not that those on here insisting how easily women can avoid unplanned pregnancies will care, but many women can't use oral contraceptives or other convenient contraceptive methods because of medical reasons. I think we should just all stop having sex until the menopause, maybe that will make them happy [/quote]

Then use inconvenient methods, plus a condom, like many of us did for decades. You don't pop out human beings for others to support just because it's inconvenient for you to use a cap and spermicide.

Without googling, tell me the failure rate of the diaphragm (if you can find a clinic that fits them any more), with and without spermicide.

'The benefits system is complicated enough without having some low paid unqualified office worker deciding if you’re circumstances and evidence are special enough to qualify for a third child benefit payment. Too many people lie to get money as well.'

The only exemption as far as I know is rape.

Describing that as 'special enough' and saying women lie about rape is pretty crass imo.

Up to you though that's your views you've made them clear.

@PearPickingPorky

Then we need to put resources into educating and training these people regarding their life choices, with the aim of preventing imprudent and ill-advised reproduction.

Not supporting it after the fact.

By punishing the children after they are born by making them live in poverty?

It's the parents who chose that life for their own offspring. Don't blame the rest of us.

You're comfortable with children going without in the UK in 2020.

Again, a definite option clearly expressed.

What the fuck has happened to this country.

@Prestel

itispersonal

I think you might be overlooking the fact that the majority of child tax credits, which is the benefit affected by the two child limit, is paid to people in work.

Also the majority of children living in poverty live in working households. The two child limit affects a far wider range of people than just the unemployed.

I know it's not blanket, working poverty and those just over the threshold (but in poverty) and don't get any help at all.

I have also been on tax credits as a top to mine and my dps wages when my dd was first born. I use to dread maybe earning over the threshold, by doing overtime, and then have to potentially pay it back and struggle for the next year. I also would have loved to have had another child but our financial circumstances didn't allow for it.

Previous generations all had to make decisions on how many children to have / keep, even before the benefit system. And this involved back street abortionist, adoption, sending children away to live with other family members, if they were lucky.

@PotholeParadies

Without googling, tell me the failure rate of the diaphragm (if you can find a clinic that fits them any more), with and without spermicide.

More than 90 percent and even higher with condom. The combo worked for me for many years when I smoked & didn't want to take the pill.

And voila! I don't have any unplanned kids I couldn't afford to rear, either. Instead of whining about how haaaard it all is, with my begging paw out to the world, I took responsibility for outcomes. Imagine that.

but I think people should have some responsibility for ensuring they don’t get pregnant if they can’t afford to raise a child by them self and we cannot consider every possible circumstance for why they haven’t been able to do this

"People" need to ensure they don't get pregnant. People who get pregnant. And those people who get pregnant need to be able to raise the child by themself.

Wonder what people these are who have to take all the responsibility.

Typical use is quoted as low as 88% effective, and using a condom with it requires responsibility on the part of the bloke.

Anyone gone over to pistonheads to lecture them on using condoms lately?

I got to the bit where Polly Toynbee said the policy is just like the One Child Policy of China and read no further. Yes, the UK is exactly like Communist China