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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Keira

999 replies

YouNoob · 01/12/2020 10:25

Live tweets from Belstaffie here:

mobile.twitter.com/Belstaffie/status/1333716720176033793

OP posts:
Thread gallery
33
boatyardblues · 01/12/2020 22:38

[quote BlackForestCake]Apparently Keira is on Newsnight later up against Susie Green!
twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1333881218346061825[/quote]
I was about to head to bed, but this will be worth staying up for.

Delphinium20 · 01/12/2020 22:46

National papers have actively worked to avoid investigating serious issues of public interest through this political lobby and their agenda.

I keep scanning the American media, but I'm only seeing Reuters (outside UK), National Review (conservative). I'll keep watching.

2Rebecca · 01/12/2020 22:50

Maitlis and BBC as objective as usual "Puberty blockers will be DENIED to children......."

Tannins · 01/12/2020 22:54

The trans community doesn’t like or trust the Tavi?

Keira
TheCuriousMonkey · 01/12/2020 22:55

Oh are we no longer allowed to talk about pigeons? I was enjoying that.

ChloeCrocodile · 01/12/2020 22:55

This isnt even about the capacity of patients to consent. This is into clinical malpractice and ethically dubious conduct and procedure which children have been caught up in. This is significant.

I agree, is hugely significant. In the end, it will be the malpractice legal cases which bring the whole sorry mess to a conclusion.

Ultimately, today’s decision indicates that clinicians have been acting contrary to the law regarding medical treatment of children. The high court wasn’t issuing new diktats, they were reviewing whether current law was being applied. The tavi lost the case and have had to immediately change their procedures. Their work was literally in opposition to the law.

Despite being outwith the scope of this review, the judges’ assessment of evidence also suggests widespread malpractice in the care of adults with gender dysphoria. It is pleasing that the case may signal the beginning of the end of poor treatment, but more depressing that we ever got into this mess. More cases to come, I think.

Finally, I’m rather upset at the poor quality of science teaching these healthcare professions appear to have received. Every doctor has science a levels. Every doctor has been taught medical ethics at university. How have they managed to reach and maintain positions within GIDS while understanding neither how experiments work (ie you have to actually measure the outcomes), nor the basics of consent (participants must understand that they are part of an experiment)? To be frank, my year 7 science class understand these two concepts.

2Rebecca · 01/12/2020 22:57

Think I'll just go to bed. Emily Maitlis's obvious bias on absolutely everything annoys me too much. I don't trust her to be even handed on anything. Will go to bed feeling pleased Keira and co prevailed

2Rebecca · 01/12/2020 23:01

The pigeon thread seemed to be proof that puberty blockers aren't good for your brain, although I wasn't sure it wasn't a spoof thread, it seemed OTT bonkers

fastwigglylines · 01/12/2020 23:01

Emily understands this issue really well. I'm looking forward to it. (Hurry up Newsnight!)

BettyFloop · 01/12/2020 23:02

Watching Newsnight and hoping that Ms Green is prepared to debate. But I suspect she'll just want to denounce the judgement without being challenged....

OhHolyJesus · 01/12/2020 23:04

Jake Graf has delivered a very responsible and positive message to young gender dysphoric kids on their Instagram story just now.

Will check it out but Jake and Hannah are both Mermaids Patrons, neither has had genital surgery, both have GRCs and amended birth certificates (I think). Neither Jake nor Hannah talk responsibly about hormones and what has happened to their bodies apart from showing off in photo shoot images and creating their brand to encourage their followers to believe their narrative.

They only have been able to have their gorgeous daughter because they went through their own female puberty and were able to preserve and freeze some of their eggs.

Hannah did not freeze Hannah's sperm so this couple have only been able to have their daughter Millie because of science, a sperm donor and a woman called Laura, a single mother of two, who offered herself as a Surrogate Mother, at great personal risk.

Had Jake not preserved Jake's eggs there would have been another woman, or women, more science and more money needed to create their baby Millie.

I don't know how old Jake was at the time of egg collection and freezing but most teenagers don't have a shed load of cash required for the process.

Mollyollydolly · 01/12/2020 23:06

I think Emily is one of the Tervan. She understands it really well, shown up a few people in the past, unlike that woman who interviewed Graham Lineham who's name I cant remember. She was a disgrace. Bet they wont be showing clips of that tonight.

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero · 01/12/2020 23:06

@Tannins

The trans community doesn’t like or trust the Tavi?
The trans community don’t seem to like or trust anyone much shrug
Doyoumind · 01/12/2020 23:07

I've delayed going to bed to watch Newsnight. Looking forward to SG trying to claim PB are life saving (as Mermaids have been doing all day on twitter) and being shut down by Emily.

rogdmum · 01/12/2020 23:07

Re people asking about Sandyford, I think they will be sensible and cautious. Back around May when the NHS changed their advice re puberty blockers to make it clear they aren’t fully reversible, I wrote to Sandyford to ask them to have another look at their Young People’s Gender Service Booklet because of their PB description, they emailed me to thank me for pointing out the change to them, immediately removed it from the website and said they would update me once it was rephrased. It’s the beginning of Dec and it still hasn’t been replaced (they’d told me they thought it would take about a week): www.sandyford.scot/sexual-health-services/gender-identity-service/

In contrast, my understanding is that the Tavi declined to do any updating.

Sheheshehe · 01/12/2020 23:09

I forgot to mention Jake and Hannah’s surrogate, Laura - that was an awful oversight - apologies.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/12/2020 23:11

Newsnight is certainly starting out well!

boatyardblues · 01/12/2020 23:11

Deborah Cohen leading off - good!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/12/2020 23:11

It's going very very well Shock

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 01/12/2020 23:12

That’s really good to read rogdmum

wejammin · 01/12/2020 23:12

"in this ruling there will be no winners".

Well that's not true!

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 01/12/2020 23:14

Tavistock couldn’t send anyone to Newsnight 👀

RedToothBrush · 01/12/2020 23:16

@Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons

Tavistock couldn’t send anyone to Newsnight 👀
Of course they can't.

That judgment leaves them in a really precarious position.

They HAVE to go for an appeal. The implications for liability if they don't are significant.

Heads are going to roll.

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero · 01/12/2020 23:16

GenderGP claim fo follow the same competency to consent policies as the NHS (whilst linking to the general NHS policy and not the one in the GIDS service specification).

Have archived the page. How long will it take for them to change it? Shall we have a wager?

archive.md/GJjfv

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/12/2020 23:17

Fuck sake - Keira is not responsible for all the other trans identifying children!

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