Keira

[YouNoob]

Live tweets from Belstaffie here:

mobile.twitter.com/Belstaffie/status/1333716720176033793

Really horrified by the lack of follow up when they knew they were using an experimental drug.

Here’s the news night clip about the study.

The conclusion of the decision is a pretty good summary MammothMashup so you can retweet this:

twitter.com/STILLTish/status/1333731875689521153

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

The news caused my partner to have a nosebleed and palpitations, recalling all the negative effects on their psyche puberty had on them. That a judge with no background has the say on whether children can now have puberty blockers is no different than the paramedics hired by CAPITA who decide whether my Autism qualifies me for PIP.

And your point is?

They went through puberty. So weren't experimented on, and don't know whether they'd have had long term side effects from the drugs. Thinking the grass is greener and that life would some how be better if only I'd done X when I was a child is no way to live and is based in fantasy not reality.

They may have trauma from their experiences but it doesn't mean this pathway is better. Indeed for many it may be inappropriate and worse than no intervention.

Given that most teenagers do desist if they don't get drugs it does suggest that drugs are doing more harm than good to that age group.

Comparing an adult with a child is not a fair comparison.

And this post is deliberately invoking emotive bullshit rather than looking at evidence based medicine and whether children have the capacity to consent.

Your argument about your condition as an adult is a complete strawman argument of absolutely no relevance to whether a 12 or 13 year old has capacity to consent to puberty blockers too.

The judge looked at evidence and capacity and made a decision. They are qualified to do so and to not be hostage to emotional blackmail of individuals who are not related to the case and may be unrepresentative of the issue at hand.

Your partner should deal with their anxiety disorder if they are getting nosebleeds and palpitations over a court ruling.

Here's Evan Davies.

Radio ,4 now

assigned at birth
has always been rubbish
because the chromosome makeup of the individual is set at conception
if the cells have a Y chromosome then the baby is Male
LONG BEFORE it is born

’The implications of this ruling are wide-reaching. This decision is a dark day for the rights of all young people to make decisions about their own bodies, including young people seeking access to the pill and even abortions."

Utter bullshit. A 14/15 year old is able to grasp the consequences of pregnancy. They’re competent on that issue. An 11 year old isn’t able to weigh the effect blockers have on their bone development , their future fertility or even how taking blockers will impact the type and result of any future operation to change their genitalia.

Ahh, good, the summary being given on Radio 4 PM programme is by Sangita Myska who is being far more even-handed that Evan Davies would be inclined to be.

For me the most telling part about this treatment is that almost 100% of children go on to cross sex hormones.

How can the Tavistock ever have called puberty blocking a pause, when it quite evidently wasn't, in almost every case.

It stands to reason that if you stop a child from maturing at say ten or eleven, when they reach sixteen they will be no more mature than they were at ten. They are making the same decision, with no more resources, tools, or experience.

Little wonder that most of them go on to cross sex hormones.

Re the study....

2011-14 UCLH Early Intervention Study

"We note that though this research study was commenced some 9 years ago, at the time of the hearing before us the results of this research had yet to be published. Dr Carmichael says in her witness statement dated 2 February 2020 that a paper is now being finalised for publication. At the hearing we were told that this paper had been submitted for peer review bit that Professor Viner, one of the authors of it, had yet to respond to issues raised by the reviewers as he has been otherwise engaged in working on issues related to the coronavirus pandemic.
(Judgement para 24)

You tell him Keira! (Evan)

No such thing as gender identity!

Evan Davies: doesn't it concern you that your judgement will prevent kids who are truly trans from transitioning Keira?

Thank you Kiera

What a horrible question. "Do you regret this judgement on behalf of those teens who want to transition"....!

Does the bbc regret fooling children into thinking they had the wrong body via various programmes and online content?

@nauticant

My daughter is clear that without blockers, she would not have wanted to carry on [with the transition]

Susie Green is forever giving tells isn't she?

It's so obvious. The acolytes are too busy polishing their halos to actually SEE.

"My daughter is clear that without blockers, she would not have wanted to carry on, knowing that forever, she would be identifiable as being assigned male at birth due to irreversible changes that a male puberty would have brought."

Isn't this Keira's point? In fact I'd be interested to know if Keira would feel that at one time she had a similar view. But the ruling today is to do with that young people this distressed about their bodies need access to other support and other treatments than to feel the only option is to radically and medically change their body when the adults guiding them are doing so against standard practice, standard medical ethics, with experimental drugs and no real view of the outcome, and that child can have no real grasp on what it is they are permanently parting with for what may be a temporary distress.

The extreme distress of individuals does not justify throwing aside child protection and law. Or justify the extreme distress of young adults who realise they were helped as children into harmful situations instead of protected.

Kiera knew as a teenager that what she wanted most in the whole world was to be a boy. She didn’t just daydream. She acted in it and took steps to adapt her body to a close as dammit to a boy as possible with the appliance if science.

Except she didn’t know that she actually wanted to be a girl.

It stands to reason that if you stop a child from maturing at say ten or eleven, when they reach sixteen they will be no more mature than they were at ten. They are making the same decision, with no more resources, tools, or experience.

Exactly @Datun

I wonder how many parents are comiserating with their gender non conforming kids, then doing a jig around the kitchen that they won't have to fight the battle to persuade them to hold off......

@alexdgr8

Sultanasofa, do you know who prof butler is, as you posted this

Professor Butler said that PBs: “may have some help or advantage in the support of transgender adolescents in some aspects of mental health functioning, in particular with reducing the risk of reduction of suicidal ideation and actual suicidal actions themselves.”

Professor Gary Butler, Consultant in Paediatric Endocrinology at University College Hospital London

This is one of the witnesses who described the process that the children and young people go through at GIDS and at the Trusts, providing a statement on behalf of the defendant and the Trusts.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/keira-bell-s-landmark-victory-against-hormone-blockers-for-children Just a piece in the Spectator by Julie Bindell

That study (cont)

Although the study has not yet been published, there was a non peer reviewed "Evaluation Paper" published covering some material from the study.

"The Evaluation Paper on the Early Intervention Study at GIDS, referred to in para 25 above [my previous post], gives some (albeit limited) material on the outcome of that study. It summarised a meeting paper presented by Dr Carmichael and Professor Viner in 2014 (but not published in a peer review journal).as follows:

"The reported qualitative data on early outcomes of 44 young people who received early pubertal suppression. It noted that 100% of young people stated that they wished to continue on GnRHa, that 23 (52%) reported an improvement in mood since starting the blocker, but that 27% reported a decrease in mood. Noted that there was no overall improvement in mood or psychological well-being using standardized psychological measures (emphasis added) "

Judgement para 73

knowing that forever, she would be identifiable as being assigned male at birth due to irreversible changes that a male puberty would have brought.

And instead J Green is forever identifiable as having been male at birth due to Susie Green’s career and associated promotional work, such as

‘Transsexual Teen, Beauty Queen’

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0112c19

Slow handclap for Susie.

Julie Bindel in The Spectator

www.spectator.co.uk/article/keira-bell-s-landmark-victory-against-hormone-blockers-for-children