Keira

[YouNoob]

Live tweets from Belstaffie here:

mobile.twitter.com/Belstaffie/status/1333716720176033793

Oh and regarding abortion, courts already are involved in this if there is a question of capacity for adults or if there is reason to believe a child isn't Gillick competent. They act as if this is unheard of, it's not new at all.

This was the most high profile judgement in recent years (interesting case to get an understanding of how the court works on these issues and very easy to read)

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/COP/2013/1417.html

It is going to be difficult for those who have been told that puberty blockers is a miracle cure to come to terms with this

Yes, all the organisations promoting the ' transition or commit suicide and by the way, anyone who disagrees with this, disagrees because they HATE you' have a lot to answer for, in terms of what they have done the mental health of troubled children. How pernicious, how unforgiveable, to tell children that there is a group of people out there who hate them. How pernicious, to want to shut down any alternative therapeutic treatment for troubled children because you find that too challenging to your own ideology.

This is an extremely welcome ruling.

The one thing that makes me pause slightly is the emphasis on experimental treatment in the ruling, which makes me want to see a good discussion of what the impacts of the ruling will be for medical research with children. Hopefully it will support the principle that children can take part in research where they can give informed consent.

I'm so relieved at the ruling, and so, so angry with all the senior leaders of the medical profession. It is clear that GIDS has been operating in a totally unethical way and that this has been known about for years. All the heads of the Royal Colleges/NHS/DHSC/public health profession must have known there were concerns about the service and have been sticking their heads in the sand about this for years. They decided to sit back and pass the fight to (mostly) women rather than step up and protect children like they're supposed to.

@lostintheday

It is going to be difficult for those who have been told that puberty blockers is a miracle cure to come to terms with this

Yes, all the organisations promoting the ' transition or commit suicide and by the way, anyone who disagrees with this, disagrees because they HATE you' have a lot to answer for, in terms of what they have done the mental health of troubled children. How pernicious, how unforgiveable, to tell children that there is a group of people out there who hate them. How pernicious, to want to shut down any alternative therapeutic treatment for troubled children because you find that too challenging to your own ideology.

Absolutely agree.

Jo is panicking. Much tweeting.

The one thing that makes me pause slightly is the emphasis on experimental treatment in the ruling, which makes me want to see a good discussion of what the impacts of the ruling will be for medical research with children. Hopefully it will support the principle that children can take part in research where they can give informed consent.

I guess the difference with most experimental treatments is that they are a usually a last ditch attempt to prevent great harm / death.

PBs in many ways are the opposite.

I'm enjoying this particularly toxic TRA driving himself into a frenzy of denial:

twitter.com/oolon/status/1333767086385008640

Do not be tempted to reply to this individual though because, well, just don't.

@OvaHere

Pink News as always with the fake take

Arf arf.

Here’s an archived link for the current version: archive.md/tkTTz

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/12/01/puberty-blockers-keira-bell-high-court-transgender-teenagers-gids/

I’ve fed quite a lot into the archive generator today, but this is the first one that had already been done by someone else by the time I got to it

🍻 to my fellow internet librarian today!

The Mermaids tweet about life-saving treatment is so fecking irresponsible. The constant references to suicide. And the fact that they couldn't even submit evidence relevant to the case. If I were a parent I'd be loathe to hand over my child to people who are demonstrably so inept.

Same goes for the Tavistock. You've got this new situation with vast numbers of girls suddenly deciding they're boys, and you don't even bother to try and gather evidence and statistics re autism. I can't get over it.

@HerewardTheWoke

This is an extremely welcome ruling.

The one thing that makes me pause slightly is the emphasis on experimental treatment in the ruling, which makes me want to see a good discussion of what the impacts of the ruling will be for medical research with children. Hopefully it will support the principle that children can take part in research where they can give informed consent.

I'm so relieved at the ruling, and so, so angry with all the senior leaders of the medical profession. It is clear that GIDS has been operating in a totally unethical way and that this has been known about for years. All the heads of the Royal Colleges/NHS/DHSC/public health profession must have known there were concerns about the service and have been sticking their heads in the sand about this for years. They decided to sit back and pass the fight to (mostly) women rather than step up and protect children like they're supposed to.

As Trasgender Trend has pointed out:

This raises serious issues about why these lobby groups have been allowed to influence our health service so radically, causing harm to so many children. The Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust is a Stonewall Diversity Champion, as is the Care Quality Commission who judged the Tavistock service ‘good’. A senior clinician at the GIDS was a member of Gendered Intelligence, a lobby group the GIDS has worked with. GIRES has produced training resources for the Royal College of General Practitioners. All these groups promote the ideology of ‘gender identity’, none are qualified doctors or clinicians

Maybe we need to write to our MPs (again) asking what the government is going to do to remove these toxic influences from medicine and education?

So am I correct in concluding that the combination of waiting lists, the difficulty in assessing informed consent, the threat of litigation, the further shining of light on trans kid lobby groups and the fact that this might embolden other cases mean that a mortal blow has been dealt to this appalling practice of medical experimentation on children?

This is great news, I'm so impressed by Keira's bravery and I hope she can now start to pick up the pieces of her life.

I listened to a File on Four podcast a while back, they spoke to Charlie Evans and a lady named Debbie who spoke about the lack of support available for detransitioners or people just unsure about the process. There was a spokesperson from Tavistock who was so dismissive it shocked me and I wondered if young people and their parents are aware. I'll try to find a link to the podcast, will be interesting to listen again following today's findings.

*loath

I am so proud of all the women involved in today’s case. Sue, Keira and Mrs A you are remarkable people

@cantdothisnow1

Not being funny but CAMHS is not going to cope with the influx from the gender clinic.

As for suggesting the emergency services, genuinely shocking. They ought to have their own helpline set up .Surely they can't be so indoctrinated to the affirmation model that they can't support the children in their care at this time?

Quite.

GIDS is meant to be a psycho-social service.
That they haven’t made any kind of provision for kids under their care/ provided a point of contact beyond an update on their website is absolutely unfuckingforgiveable.

(I'm enjoying this particularly toxic TRA driving himself into a frenzy of denial*

I live in hope that one day. One day, that somewhere the penny will drop and finally, someone will see that alot of organisation/pharma companies etc are making money from all this and that maybe just maybe all these feminists who have risked so much, lost their jobs, been arrested, but carry on fighting for children anyway, are not the bad guys here.

At some the question of who you believe has to be asked doesn't it. Do you believe thise who hold the profits and the benefits or those who will lose everything but keep going because children need us to fight fir them.

Point I saw on twitter:

Children can't consent, but can parents consent on behalf of their children?

So pleased with this result. Ready the gids page shows how it isn't going to just be business as usual from now on.

The article is now at number 4 in the BBC's "Most Read Stories" list, so burying it away in the Local News section hasn't worked!

The BBC news page has been updated again with a new headline and more info:

Puberty blockers: Under-16s 'unlikely' to be able to give informed consent
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-55144148

Also a great clip of Keira speaking.

Also am I right in thinking access to PBs will be limited for all under-18s, not just under-16s?

I do wonder if there might actually be some relief at The Tavistock today, at least in some quarters.

This has taken the decision out of their hands. I know some will be true believers but for others the pressure from activists, parents and the children themselves to only ever affirm must be huge.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Point I saw on twitter:

Children can't consent, but can parents consent on behalf of their children?

This is what it says in the Parental Consent section of the judgement.

If a child cannot give consent for treatment because they are not Gillick competent then the normal position in law would be that someone with parental responsibility could consent on their behalf. Mr Hyam sought at one point to argue that a decision as to giving PBs would fall outside the scope of parental responsibility because of the nature of the treatment concerned. However, the GIDS practice in relation to acting on parental consent alone is quite clear. In the response to the pre-action protocol letter the defendant said:

“36. There is a fundamental misunderstanding in your letter, which states that parents can consent to pubertal suspension on behalf of a child who is not capable of doing so. This is not the case for this service, as is clear from the above. Although the general law would permit parent(s) to consent on behalf of their child, GIDS has never administered, nor can it conceive of any situation where it would be appropriate to administer blockers on a patient without their consent.
The Service Specification confirms that this is the case.”
It follows that is not necessary for us to consider whether parents could consent to the treatment if the child cannot lawfully do so because this is not the policy or practice of the defendant and such a case could not currently arise on the facts.

@Collidascope

The Mermaids tweet about life-saving treatment is so fecking irresponsible. The constant references to suicide. And the fact that they couldn't even submit evidence relevant to the case. If I were a parent I'd be loathe to hand over my child to people who are demonstrably so inept.

Same goes for the Tavistock. You've got this new situation with vast numbers of girls suddenly deciding they're boys, and you don't even bother to try and gather evidence and statistics re autism. I can't get over it.

Yes, I used to think that Tavi was just struggling under high caseloads and under pressure from Mermaids et al, but the truth is that at some point they became apostles for a belief system that requires them to overlook evidence. Polly Carmichael's Newsnight interview was very revealing, she showed no interest in why so many girls would rather be boys.

hope not cross post. I wonder what this means for the fox beating QC's action for the 14 year old child - didn't they want puberty blockers?

Wow what an amazing result. Keira