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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

493 replies

ExLLLeader · 27/11/2020 12:24

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

--------

Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
-------
Not had an answer

OP posts:
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 01/12/2020 15:31

What - they want to breastfeed?

allmywhat · 01/12/2020 15:33

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

Seems very simple. If they are planning to "breastfeed" with their own nipple secretions, they risk harming their infant and this should not be encouraged, to put it mildly. If they aren't, then they don't need to attend a breastfeeding group.

MammothMashup · 01/12/2020 15:49

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

1.Pump.
2.baby carriers.

  1. Honestly?! The rates of bf in this country are dire. Most make the decision to ff before conception.
MammothMashup · 01/12/2020 15:50

One night of cluster feeding every 45 mins (at 4 months, for 2 months) will make them reach for the bottle.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 01/12/2020 15:51

I was at the point where I was so sleep deprived I was hallucinating. I wouldn’t wish that on... many people.

SophocIestheFox · 01/12/2020 15:52

I wouldn’t recommend that somebody who’s just been widowed and left with a newborn further traumatise themselves and the motherless baby by taking large amounts of powerful drugs and hormones that are likely to further affect their physical and mental wellbeing when it is physically impossible for that to result in an adequately nourished baby.

If a woman is too traumatised to breastfeed, then the next options are formula or donated milk. Again, this is because it is not possible for a male to successfully nourish a child by lactating.

HTH

MedusasBadHairDay · 01/12/2020 15:56

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?
I couldn't breastfed, do you know what my husband did? He fed the baby formula, from a bottle, because it was the best way to get the baby the nutrition needed. Why would a man not put his babies needs first?
Sometimesonly · 01/12/2020 15:56

Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?
What? I couldn't breastfeed. Not once did it occur to my husband to try and lactate!

Backbee · 01/12/2020 15:56

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

What about them?

MammothMashup · 01/12/2020 15:56

It is comes down to who it's for?

It's for the child. Not the grown up male with a weird fascination to bf.

CaraDuneRedux · 01/12/2020 16:16

@CrazyPigeonLadyMarried2Trans

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?
Allow me to introduce you to one of the great inventions of the 20th century, without which my DS would have starved: infant formula milk.

You can buy it (and the necessary accessories) in all major supermarkets and chemists.

Okay, so it's not as good as breast milk, but it's a more than adequate substitute if the alternative is starvation.

HTH. Smile

Winesalot · 01/12/2020 16:21

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

It all comes down to whose is it benefitting doesn't it. The child? to receive experimental milk (like children receiving experimental puberty blockers by the way) that has not been researched as to what drugs are contained? Or is this just good for the male? It is just centring males yet again.

I think it is time to assess the motivations of these males who seem very keen to breastfeed infants (I cannot get over the 'I got off on it, don't judge' comments) and for males who advocate for young children and teens to have their puberty stopped and to transition early rather than receive intensive mental health care to ensure their mental health is robust enough to cope with transitioning when they are of age to decide. Who do these things actually benefit?

Winesalot · 01/12/2020 16:32

Who do these things actually benefit?

And by this, I mean it is usually NOT the children, this always seems to be about the male's needs.

HotelliFinlandia · 01/12/2020 16:35

@MondayYogurt

I wonder if Nestle would do a study, on the basis that their formula is just as likely to be more beneficial than drug-induced man milk.

😂

OhHolyJesus · 01/12/2020 16:35

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

Because we're no longer in Victorian times he doesn't reach for the nearest wet nurse nor try to attempt breastfeeding himself that's for sure.

The drugs would need time anyway, he doesn't pop them in or shoot them up and bingo milk is shooting out of his nipples!

Unless he did this in the months leading up to his wife's death and it was premeditated then it's a trip down the supermarket, hopefully by a concerned and practical relative, for the formula stock up.

It's planned as a take over, motivated by a...? It's not motivated by trauma. If it was a trauma it must be the last thing on your mind.

My friend had a surgery and was separated from her newborn daughter nearly a day after the birth. Her husband looked after the baby and she got better and was able to breastfeed once fully recovered so much that she produced so much of the good stuff she donated it. She was lucky yes but she worked really bloody hard as it was important to her. I'm glad she didn't have a man around her, watching her as she breastfed, other than her husband. She had been through enough.

CaraDuneRedux · 01/12/2020 16:56

You know, sometimes people on here say things so clearly nuts that I find myself wondering whether they are in fact satirical creations of people on our side along the lines of Titania McGrath.

I mean surely no-one could be so lacking in self awareness as to not have a clue how they come across to lurkers.

Deliriumoftheendless · 01/12/2020 17:25

I really struggled to breast feed and ended up mix feeding breast milk and formula. It wasn’t what I wanted to do but my daughter was losing weight and it was advice from a doctor.

Her exact words were “that’s what formula was invented for” and those words still have the capacity to enrage me as I needed more support than than at the time, but you know, if a man is widowed or has a mentally incapacitated partner this would be the EXACT words I would tell him.

Kaliorphic · 01/12/2020 17:41

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?

Generally under these circumstances there's this amazing stuff you can buy called formula that does a perfectly good job of feeding infants. And it's safe. You can buy it in supermarkets and chemists. More rarely, but still possible, is milk donation. From a woman.

bellinisurge · 01/12/2020 18:00

"What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?"

I was "incapable " of breastfeeding - fuck off with that nasty insensitive word, btw - DD's father never thought once that he needed to bf to be a dad to her.
And "fuck off" if you missed me saying it the first time.

HecatesCats · 02/12/2020 19:07

The Baroness has written to LLL:

La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.
La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.
ThatIsNotMyUsername · 02/12/2020 19:56

The drug causes heart failure in adult men - oh my god. What are they advocating giving to babies???

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 02/12/2020 19:56

I could have cried when I read that. What adult - let alone a parent - would knowingly put this into their baby?

HecatesCats · 02/12/2020 20:01

The link is here, better quality!

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1334210792468717573?s=21

ICJump · 02/12/2020 20:11

Breast milk gets fetishised because of the risk element – because it’s natural, and because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

What an absolute pillock.

When DD1 was not feeding well, not gaining weight and I was pumping, trying to bottle feed and and give milk via an SNS I remember thinking I cant even switch to formula she wont take a bottle.

When omen breastfeed they are responsive to thier baby. That is how breastfeeding works the baby need to take out milk for the mum to make more. Mums can’t will themselves to make more milk nor can they make the baby take more milk if the baby doesn’t want to.

I really wish those righting about breastfeeding would take the time to understand the mechanics of it before laying academic theories over it.

In fact that is sort of how we get to the point that we are debating LLL including men in breastfeeding. LLL are focusing on academic theories rather than the nuts and bolts.

Masssivefuckup · 02/12/2020 20:24

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

The drug that is being referred to is domperidone, a drug which I and many other women take in order to be able to breastfeed there children.

kellymom.com/bf/can-i-breastfeed/meds/prescript_galactagogue/

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