La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

--------

Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
-----
Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
-------
Not had an answer

Baroness Nicholson is onit.

twitter.com/baroness_nichol/status/1332987452496211970?s=21

All males should have the right to bond with their children in any way they wish.

Oh my god. no! Just, please, no.

1. As a feminist board, any sentence starting with "All males should have the right to..." is a problem in itself.

1. Protecting babies from unsafe men is the crux of this thread.

Do LLL realise they can just say no?

They really don't have to admit men, however they identify, whatever paperwork they have, anywhere near their organisation.

They can just say no. Any ensuing tantrums would not, even for a minute, undermine their position. Quite the opposite.

For what it is worth, I did a word count in the last few Annual Reports of the Canadian La Leche League. In 2015 the word "mother" appeared 15 times and reference to breast feeding 24 times. Compare this to the 2019 report where the word mother occurred 3 times, breast feeding 4 times and chest feeding 2 times. In the name of equity and inclusion, the word mother and breast is being erased. Lots of references to "parents" and at least one reference to the "breastfeeding couple." I assume they weren't referring to the two breasts. On a positive note, they still recommend "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding".

That's interesting too many the 2019 report sounds like it's had a concerted effort in the writing to avoid certain words.

I read this a couple of weeks ago and noticed this quote from Joan Wolf, associate professor of women’s and gender studies at Texas A&M University and author of Is Breast Best?,

"Breast milk gets fetishised because of the risk element – because it’s natural, and because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

I've taken it out of context as she speaks about the social impacts of having to breastfeed in a negative way so I do recommend reading for the context.

I'd love for these companies who are trying to replicate human milk from cultures in mammary glands to test the men's milk and maybe use their 'mammary glands'...
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/nov/14/i-want-to-give-my-child-the-best-the-race-to-grow-human-breast-milk-in-a-lab?utmterm=Autofeed&CMP=fbbgu&utmmedium=Social&utmmsource=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1Dctg7qoF7szwNiE2dwx6HBRZXN3tGBS5ENuxbNiE8mQoOTUHsgPFy7KM#Echobox=1605485694

because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

Anyone who has bf would feel that the baby has the power over them...

giving nourishment to your baby is about power? Weird goings on.

because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies

I am maniacly laughing at this!! Power over a baby? Well... i guess if you have one that is wonderfully placid like in the movies......

What's the 'risk element' involved in breast feeding?

I never managed to breastfeed and LL were spectacularly unhelpful. I phoned them and they said I would have to come to them and they were only available one night a month - it would have been an hour's journey on three buses, through the snow, with premature twins. I passed on that one! It's so infuriating as surely this is one area where not only do they have an excuse to be exclusive to females, they have a duty.

I can well imagine that breast milk gets fetishised by some transwomen doesn't it. The ultimate female thing, aside from periods. I still haven't forgotten got over the transwomen who dug through the tampon bin in a service station to find used tampons to wear in his womanly knickers.

Funny how these creeps don't fetishise menopause symptoms. Which only biological women get. And no, it's not an attack of the fucking vapours and "Janice from Friends" style waving at your face because you are a bit flushed.

@Datun

What's the 'risk element' involved in breast feeding?

The only thing I can think of is biting.

Otherwise any risk would be for the baby, if mum uses drugs or alcohol etc.

I mean I haven’t complied a risk assessment on breast feeding but I’d guess it’s low risk to the mum.

Funny how these creeps don't fetishise menopause symptoms. Which only biological women get. And no, it's not an attack of the fucking vapours and "Janice from Friends" style waving at your face because you are a bit flushed.

No they don't want that because it's not womanly enough. I have seen some of them say that menopausal women aren't actually women anymore because they no longer have those feminine attributes. Go figure. It's a way of othering women in their own sex class in order to insert their own category of womxn into it. The arse end of Twitter for sure.

Thank goodness. All the support groups and clinics would be chocka with Nora batty allies (for no one ever would channel Sophia Loren would they?)

I hate to disappoint you, but menopause appropriation has happened on this very board.

The poster described the utter awfulness of six months of hormone hell that their doctor told them was them experiencing the menopause due to “too much oestrogen”.

I’m a very calm person generally, and don’t let these types get me het up, but that one... the poster was extremely sniffy that I wasn’t one bit kind about any of it. Tugging of heartstrings ensued.

the poster was extremely sniffy that I wasn’t one bit kind about any of it. Tugging of heartstrings ensued.

Well you should just be kind shouldn't you 😉 Even if it was totally self inflicted and entirely preventable.

utter awfulness of six months of hormone hell Fuck, I wish that was all it was!!!!

My well of kindness ran dry that day, kaliorphic

It was the expectation of sympathy for the sheer unrelenting horror of a whole six months of wonky hormones that set me off, wines. Six months! I ask you. Just clueless, utterly clueless.

My well of kindness ran dry that day, kaliorphic

There's only so much to go round isn't there 😢

This has been the final straw for me with the LLL. I had a shitty experience with my 2nd child, having given my all to LLL meetings for nearly 3 years at this point, I was refused help by the leader "because the new mothers needed it more and I knew what I was doing and there's just not enough time". This sent me into a spiral of postnatal depression I could barely get out of (oh and I found an NCT group, that had just started locally, who helped and I'm still feeding him at 2.5 now) - and even after that I still paid my £50 a year subscription and recommended them to people.

But this has made me finally get round to cancelling my direct debit. I am fucking done with this nonsense.

@MammothMashup

because it gives women a feeling of absolute power over their babies.”

Anyone who has bf would feel that the baby has the power over them...

Haha yeah, the sucessful BFing I did I definitely did not in any way feel that I had any power over him. Not at all. Infact he controlled my life even more than a baby usually does!

Yes. I went through 9 months of pregnancy and birth just to have POWER over a tiny baby. Power over a baby? Have you ever had a baby that will. It sleep - you have NO power...

Part of the LLL philosophy (and why I’ve supported them for years) is that mother and baby are a dyad. Meaning they need to be seen as two parts of a whole, because what affects the baby also affects the mum, and vice versa. I just can’t see how any of this fits with that philosophy.

As for controlling the baby - hollow laugh. I’ve done nothing as physically and mentally painful as trying to meet the needs of a colicky newborn. I grieved for my loss of control, of bodily autonomy, of independence. It’s the opposite of control. But (like millions of other women) I did it because I thought it was best for my babies.

What about men who are widowed? Or whose partner's are mentally incaple of breastfeeding due to trauma?